Kentucky rifle 2 piece stock mod suggestions

[thirdslow411]

Hi all, 1st post. I've been visiting awhile and finally joined. You guys have so much more than the other forums, it was an easy choice.

I have seen it mentioned several times but my question is: What to do with the brass joiner plate on the CVA / Traditions Kentucky rifle?
Blacken it and call it a day?
Replace it with steel?
Try a different species of wood?
Or try to blend it away into a barely visible 'feature'?
What say you? It will be my first 100% raw wood kit rifle, I have done 3 CVA kit pistols and the CMC duckfoot, so not afraid. Just on a budget. It will probably be my last factory kit, getting ready for bigger and better.

I'm leaning to hiding it with a wood 'shim piece' to hide it. I am adamant about NOT using a rawhide repair. That seems worse than lipstick on a pig- like dead pig on lipstick! :rotf:
There is a lot of other slimming and rework on one of these, but the joint will always be there. I want to do the hand work! I understand why it is there and what is involved, just looking for ideas on what to do.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum. :thumbsup:

You could build the gun with the plate in place.

Famous Mountain Man, Joe Meek's, "Old Sally" is shown on page 115 in Charles E. Hanson's book THE PLAINS RIFLE © 1960.

It clearly has a brass plate separating the main stock from the forestock very much like the rifle you are building.

As for hiding it with wood, good luck.
It is almost impossible to find a piece of wood that will not look different, even after applying a dark stain.

Speaking of stain's, your stock is made out of Beech. It's close grain does not accept oil based stains worth a hoot so avoid Minwax "stains".
If you want something darker than a light tan, use a water based or alcohol based stain.

One of my favorits is Birchwood Casey Walnut.
Not only does this water based stain work very well to add a nice rich dark walnut color if 2 to 4 coats are applied but it is actually low priced.

It is available at many gun stores as well as Track of the Wolf (TOTW), Dixie, Muzzleloader Builder's Supply and other places.

 

[thirdslow411]

I actually tried a week ago to find a pic of that rifle, got only chaff and internet / google misses.

I'm currently playing with some aquafortis, so I may get a good striping to help hide the wood shim. I'm old enough to know the short way isn't what I'm looking for. I understand the beech and the end grain issues. I may try the dark blackish stain from iirc - Kibler's.

Minwax went out the window in the '90's for me and guns- just look at the police report from the neighbor...

 

[Stophel]

Honestly, it's not ever gonna be anything other than what it is, no matter what you do with it.

But, I suppose you could drill some holes in the brass coupler so you can put some little nails or screws in it so it looks like a nailed on brass repair.

 

[mooman76]

I don't really mind it myself. years back I had a thicker piece of brass so I cut it to fit. It fir ok but didn't really look any better. If I was to do it today I would probably replace it with a different type/color of wood but as pointed out it will always be there no matter what you do unless of coarse you replace the whole stock with a one piece.

 

[Zonie]

I actually tried a week ago to find a pic of that rifle, got only chaff and internet / google misses.
...

I've looked for it on the web with no success as well.

Just for the record, here is a copy of the picture in Mr. Hanson's book. The book is mentioned in my post above.

Sorry if the quality isn't real good but it's the best I could do.

PS: On page 136 of the same book it says:

"It is said that Joe once bought a Hawken at the behest of his companions, but soon discarded it as too heavy in favor of his old hunting rifle with the back-action lock, which he lovingly called "Sally."....

"Old Sally" is shown in Plate 51. The historic weapon...is crudely carved. On the right side of the stock "J. Meek, Rocky Mountains" is crudely carved. On left side are the words "Death" and "A. Kelly" and a running deer."

I don't know who A. Kelly was or why it's on the gun.

 

[Stophel]

Oh, you have the one with the thin flat plate between the pieces. I was thinking it had a coupler sort of thing about an inch or so long. Still, a piece of sheet brass could easily be overlaid and nailed/screwed into place to appear as a repair (not an uncommon thing to see on old guns).

 

[Shedhunter]

Just leave the spacer out! Put wood dowels where the steel pins go and glue both pieces together. You may have to change the mounting holes for the end cap but that's not a big deal if you do.

 

[tenngun]

Many old guns were repaired with raw hide. Wrist and forestock being common. Get some rawhide dog chews, soak in water over night, wrap around barrel and stock, cut off about 3/8 of an inch short of meeting, sew with a baseball stitch pulling the gap closed, set it in sun to dry, rub down with a stock oil or animal grease, repeat on the wrist and your gun will look like an old veteran.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'd assemble it the way it was intended to be.....
Often times, folks make it look even worse by trying to "fix it".

 

[Ames]

I'd try changing it out to a one piece stock.
If not,if it was me, and I wanted to play around, I'd try changing out the metal with a thin fitted piece of ebony or rosewood. It wont hide the joint, but it would look like you meant it.
If that looked like crud than go back to a one piece stock or the original joint.

 

[Davemuzz]

I also "vote" for assembling it the way it's suppose to be. Nothing wrong with taking care of the details on a kit gun. It will look good as long as the details are addressed. Spend your time and energy doing a good finish on all the pieces, and IMHO that will be time well spent instead of fixing something that isn't broken.

 

[MSW]

were it my project. I would go with Ames' suggestion - use a contrasting piece of wood (like - yes, I really meant that) or, in the alternative, leave the spacer out altogether.

Good luck with your project

 

[coloradoclyde]

Why buy a CVA/Traditions Kentucky kit just to remove the joint?..... :youcrazy:

If you don't like it, buy a kit that doesn't have the joint to begin with.

 

[thirdslow411]

I should have mentioned: I don't like shiny brass. Should I be surprised nobody mentioned darkening the brass shim to a brown color?

I have been wanting one of these kits for about 40 years, I'm in no rush. You may have noticed, CVA Traditions kits are getting a little less available every year. I'm betting ole Kentucky is on the short list. I'm hard looking at that flinty kit exclusive. The darkside is beckoning me... I only have 1 flinter, a TC Hawken that was a kit. That will be another post someday... 'Rework' is my middle name evidently. :shake:

That piece of brass makes the rifle easily ID'ed from anywhere visible- I'm just looking to hide it a little... Not really interested in a new stock. YET. Maybe someday, maybe not.

 

[thirdslow411]

Zonie- thank you for the pic. I also note the other issues in the wood. That gun saw a lot of use. :v

 

[necchi]

That piece of brass makes the rifle easily ID'ed from anywhere visible- I'm just looking to hide it a little...

Believe me, no matter what you do, that rifle is easily identified.
There simply isn't another rifle with that 33.5" barrel that looks anything like it.
Point is covering it, changing the space to something else or coloring it doesn't make it into a different rifle
Brass spacer or not what is the most important thing is setting up that split stock so the "split" is tight. Any looseness there will take away from the rifles capable accuracy.
Here's an olde Jukar I did a few years ago; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/269225/post/1145359/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I would just be happy with what you've got and stay with the brass part, it adds a little bit of character to the rifle and its design element is based on period rifles.

I tried dolling up a Jukar by replacing the brass plate with a wood shim, took my time, got perfect wood to wood fit, and it turned out to be a gigantic eyesore. Besides all of the other problems listed, it took it from being a generic mountain rifle vibe to a youth rifle look.

Enjoy what you have now and use the money for more powder or your next project.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I find my hand covers the brass nicely... :wink:
The brass will also darken naturally....This is accelerated by handling, as the brass joint is where your hand goes....All mine are noticeably darker than the rest of the brass furniture.

 

[Rifleman1776]

As for hiding it with wood, good luck.
It is almost impossible to find a piece of wood that will not look different, even after applying a dark stain.

Agree, but it is not necessarily a bad thing. Use a piece of contrasting wood. The rifle is a two piece, it is what it is. Give it an interesting look. Or use something like silver. You could pound a silver dollar into a thin piece to wrap around the barrel.