Kits/component sets

[joeboleo1]

I have spoken with the sellers of several kits and very much like three of these sets. They are Jim Chambers, TVM (Matt Avance), and Dunlap Woodcrafts. Wondering how much work needs to be done on the stock re: inletting, shaping etc., and if any one set sticks out as being more builder friendly, for a novice builder. Appreciate any feedback. I know all 3 have great reputations and the sets would be good, just wondering if any are more builder friendly. Thanks

 

[rabjr]

You get what you pay for. The Chambers is probably the easiest with the least amount of problems with top of the line parts but you pay for it. Other kits/sets aren't bad but you have to do more and because of that usually pay less. Have to ask yourself how involved you want to get into the project.

 

[LRB]

Chambers kits are the best for what you are asking. There is more already done for you, and all the parts are of the highest quality. They do cost more though. Chambers is about the easiest kit for a beginner if we overlook the T-C and Lyman kits, which are not in the same league as any you mentioned anyway. Have you considered an "in the white" gun, or would you rather do the building?

 

[freeloader]

HI Joe,
I have built 4 kits over the last 4 yrs. not including two GPS rifles.
Chambers does make a beautiful rifle, but it is the hardest kit I have ever built, probably due to watching the Ron Ehlert tape many times before that.If you get one, and you are a beginner and all thumbs as I am I suggest that you do not get the sliding patch box kit, nor the double set triggers that they offer, other than that inletting the parts is quite easy and they offer some beautiful architecture. OH Ya. If you go for a B weight barrel like I did in 50 cal. (DON'T) there is not enough meat left on the barrel to make it safe for hunting loads. Choose 40 or 45 Cal.Hope this helps.

 

[billd]

Freeloader, I feel for a beginner it is much easier to install a set trigger than a single. Getting a light, crisp let-off the first time you drill a single takes a lot of luck. Why do you say a .50 B weight is not safe? It is the most popular barrel made.

Joe, No matter who's kit you buy, get a good book with step by step instructions. Chuck Dixon's is good and very reasonably priced. Have lots of patience and don't be afraid to walk away if things are not going right. Use hand tools no matter how tempting it is to grab a power tool. All power tools do is allow you to make bigger mistakes faster.

 

[Dave K]

I agree with billd. A set trigger is easier to install than a single trigger. I have been shooting a "B" weight 50cal. since 2001 and there are ALLOT of shots made through this 42" barrel. I feel if it wasn't safe it wouldn't be so popular with the barrel makers or the shooters. So far, every ml'er deer I have taken has been with this 50cal. Maybe I am not using hunting loads though. :grin:

 

[rabjr]

I don't know, of my 5 builds I just followed the instructions in the book when it came time to pin the triggers and the heaviest of the 5 is a clean crisp 4 1/2 lbs let off. Give me a pinned single trigger any day over set triggers.

 

[Zonie]

I have spoken with the sellers of several kits and very much like three of these sets. They are Jim Chambers, TVM (Matt Avance), and Dunlap Woodcrafts. Wondering how much work needs to be done on the stock re: inletting, shaping etc., and if any one set sticks out as being more builder friendly, for a novice builder. Appreciate any feedback. I know all 3 have great reputations and the sets would be good, just wondering if any are more builder friendly. Thanks

I haven't built a Chambers but from what I've read on the MLF they are a little easier.

That said, I have yet to see a kit of this type that didn't take a lot of work to finish.

Yes, the barrel channel and ramrod hole are there but usually the barrel channel will require some chisel work at the breech to get a nice fit between the wood and the barrel.

Some of these kits barrels are threaded but do not have the breech plug fitted or installed. That is not terribly difficult but it does take time and patience. I would recommend to a new builder that he/she spend the extra money to have the kits maker fit the breech plug.

The overall stock in general will have a lot more wood left on it than the finished gun.
This is good because it allows the builder to shape the stock to match the gun he/she is trying to build.

The lock mortice and trigger mortice may be cut but these also will require some final trimming and fitting to get the metal parts to fit properly.

The location of the screws that hold the lock, the barrel tang and the trigger assembly will have to be determined by you, then drilled and threaded for the screws you will use.

On many of these kits you will have to determine the length of pull you want and then cut and shape the butt for the butt plate.

If you want a metal patch box, you usually have to buy it separately. That is because the company doesn't know which one of the many different styles available you will want to use.
Almost all Pennsylvania or Kentucky rifles had patch boxes.

If you want a patchbox you will have to cut the pocket under it and then inlet it into the wood.
This is done after almost all of the final stock shaping is done because you will have to bend the finial to match the stocks contour.
The outer surface of the patch box should be flush with the surface of the wood.

Putting this into how much work is involved I'll say a person who has built 2 or more rifles will spend at least 120 hours on it.
A first time builder should expect to spend at least 150 hours on it.

Obviously building one of these isn't an "instant gratification" sort of thing but the gun you end up with (if you take your time) will be something you will be proud of for the rest of your life.

Oh, another thing.
Building these guns is addictive.
Shortly after finishing your first one you will start thinking, "I wonder which one I want to build next?......."

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have spoken with the sellers of several kits and very much like three of these sets. They are Jim Chambers, TVM (Matt Avance), and Dunlap Woodcrafts. Wondering how much work needs to be done on the stock re: inletting, shaping etc., and if any one set sticks out as being more builder friendly, for a novice builder. Appreciate any feedback. I know all 3 have great reputations and the sets would be good, just wondering if any are more builder friendly. Thanks

I see that its NOT one of the tree you've listed but I would look at Pecitonica too....They will do various levels of completion for you, some of the prettiest wood you can get, from $500 to $850 as a spread.....

 

[freeloader]

I agree with you there,after you build one kit, you just have to build another. The problem I had with the double set trigger,(and I have put them on all of the rifles I built) is that I watched the Ron Ehlert tape and followed in suit buy cutting the front and the back of the trigger plate, heated and bent the back trigger as shown, but after I installed the trigger guard the rear trigger still did not have enough room to cock.Probably because I set the guard for a guy with a normal size finger to fit without fear of tapping the front trigger and accidentally setting the rifle off.I ended up heating and bending the trigger again and it busted in two on me, and there is know use in installing another one, because the way the guard is set it just wont work. Any ways stubby does not look too bad being about half the size of the original. In my humble opinion, Chambers needs to design another trigger guard to solve this problem, something like the Bivins.
As far as the B weight barrel goes, the info that I got with the kit said to use only 2F powder and 50 grs. was recommended. I talked to Jim Chambers and he said that this was written by a lawyer, LOL and said just do not go over board. All of my 50 cal. rifles have preferred 3F and I also prime with it, and after examining the barrel, it does not give you much meat on the barrel, especially at the waist with a lug installed there. I mean no disrespect to Chambers and Co., and they know far more than I do, but when I touch that thing off for the first time I am going to be a bit NERVOUS!!!

 

[Zonie]

Depending on how far along your gun is you ought to give some thought to installing a different trigger guard.

If you don't have one buy a Track of the Wolf catalog (about $10).
Compare the many different trigger guards they offer with the one you have. This is easy to do because the pictures are full size.

Some of the trigger guards they offer are made for single triggers and many of them are made for double set triggers. They have a much longer bow.
While your comparing, make sure the feet (for a better word) are as large or larger than the trigger guard you now have.
That way you can install the new guard by simply removing a bit of wood.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=14&subID=155&styleID=673
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=14&subID=155&styleID=668

While your at it, TOTW carries spare parts for most of the commercial double set triggers out there.

 

[DTCoffin]

I built a Chambers kit last year and it was a great project, a little extra inletting, I did the wood patchbox,I only got the spring and had them leave the stock bulky in that area,i had read up on making one and figured I would have better luck doing that then inletting a brass one with all the tight corners etc.I had looked at a Dunlap kit but seems there was something missing from kit, not sure now.TVM offered a swamped barrel option,but one of the biggest reasons,of all the TVM guns seen here, none of them had a raised cheekrest,with the swamped barrel, price was almost the same as a Chambers but you still didnt get the cheekpiece.From what I have looked at for the ToW,they seem a very good choice.They are not "kits" but an assortment of parts to create correct guns.
I was just looking at TVM, and unless Chambers kits have gone up, with a swamped barrel,a TVM is gonna cost you more and you won't have that raised cheekpiece,but not guns had them either.

 

[joeboleo1]

Thanks for all the input guys and for going into detsil on sets. This is what I was hoping for. Just wanted to say thanks and I will keep checking for any new posts. As always this forum is a great source information.

 

[Birddog6]

As far as the B weight barrel goes, the info that I got with the kit said to use only 2F powder and 50 grs. was recommended. I talked to Jim Chambers and he said that this was written by a lawyer, LOL and said just do not go over board. All of my 50 cal. rifles have preferred 3F and I also prime with it, and after examining the barrel, it does not give you much meat on the barrel, especially at the waist with a lug installed there. I mean no disrespect to Chambers and Co., and they know far more than I do, but when I touch that thing off for the first time I am going to be a bit NERVOUS!!!

IMHO, if there was a problem with those "B" weight .50 cal. barrels, they would have blown up years & years ago, as I my self have used probably 20 of them & never had a issue, and no telling how many thousands of them Colerain, Getz & Rice have sold. I haven't seen or heard of one blowing up yet. Yes, I can see if you cut a dovetail too deep in the waist it could cause a issue. That would be your fault, not a fault of the barrel. If you were concerned with the "B" barrel you should have bought one with a "C" barrel & had more of a comfort zone. I think 3F in a "B" weight barrel is not an issue either, as all the pressure is going to be at the first 12" or so & by 21" all the powder is burnt anyway.
As for the triggerguard, to use a double set trigger in the guard they send it is a close fit, but it can be done. You should have checked the guard & trigger set before installing it to insure it would work the way you wanted it to, & if not bought a dif. guard.

In respect to Jim Chambers, there are allot of things I do like about their parts set, as it is a fine parts set. Does it suite me ? No. There are things I don't like about it. But I don't think Jim built the parts set to please me or you, he built the parts set so it will make a PC/HC replicated rifle..... Had he built the parts set for individuals, he would have to have 1000 + dif kits of the same style of rifle. He replicated a specific rifle & it is what it is.....

Now if I was going to build a parts set, starting out as a newbie, I would buy it from Tip Curtis. Tip has a good parts set & I have built several dozen of them. His stocks have more meat on them, thus more room for error for a newbie. (Note: I try to hand pick all of my stocks, as I am picky about them) The Chambers & Dunlap stocks leave little room for error & are very fragile down the forestock. You screw up on them & you very well may not cover it.

For a newbie, were I picking a parts set, I would go with Tip Curtis first, Dunlap second, Chambers third. I have built all 3 of their parts sets & am very familiar with them. Tips has the most error cushion, Dunlaps is the easiest to build for me, and Chambers is the only PC/HC of any of them.

Keith Lisle

 

[Tommy Bruce]

I've built one of the Chambers Kit's and the quality of the parts was top notch. Still a lot of work to do. I would double check first but I think TVM also goes the extra distance of drilling lock bolt and tang bolt holes through the wood so that would be done for you. I also wouldn't worry about a b weight barrel in .50 cal. Like the guys said, they've been used for years with no problems, just be careful with your dovetails. If memory serves correctly Chamber's already dovetails the underlugs.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[freeloader]

In response to billd,DaveK and Birddog6 since all of you guys have used 50 cal. B weight barrels, could you please tell me what target loads you are currently using? My 50's seem to prefer 3F and the statement that came with the kit said do not use this, only 2F. Birddog6 the reason there is a lug in the waist is that the manufacture put one there, so there was nothing I could do about that. In fact they put four cuts for the underlugs on a 42" barrel, go figure!
Zonie, I did consider a TOW Bivins trigger guard, I put one on a York and Virginia rifle that I bought The kits from Cabin Creek they both turned out real nice, especially the Virginia, that was sold with a smaller guard and single trigger. A very good combo even though it was not sold with the kit. I liked the looks of the guard that Chambers sold with the kit and it was suppose to handle dbl. set triggers, and I suppose it does work, just not so well ( no room for error or dbl. bends.) and as I said above even after it broke it looks better to me shorter than bent the way it was suppose to be.
Regaurds,Freeloader
Oh birddog6, could you please tell me what PC/HC means, I am not familiar with that term. Thanks

 

[DTCoffin]

The Chambers kit i bought last year did not have the dovetails cut(may be an option though)
PC/HC = period correct / historically correct.

 

[mpriester]

in my opinion as far as the barrel dovetail goes i recently purchased a c weight .54 from Rice and because of the inexperience i had them do the underlug dovetails for me this way i have no fear of them being in the wrong spot, it was an additional $20.00 which imo is money well spent and the breech plug was installed by them. i too will be building my first rifle from parts kits this winter and plan on having certain things done by people with experience do them for me. i will still be proud of the rifle as i will be doing 90% of the work my self but certain things i feel should be done by an experienced gun builder as their knowledge and experience is crucial to our safety and the guns shootability. i am lucky enough to have an accomplished gun builder within 15 minutes of me which when i get my parts i will have him do some of the work that i am not comfortable with. i guess what im trying to say is most any gun will shoot well but imo it takes the experience of a builder such as Mike Brooks or others mentioned on the forum knowing where to locate certain things to make them shoot great.

 

[Vaino]

Have built 3 Chambers Early Lancaster "kits" and the only difficulty was the front lock bolt interfering w/ the RR hole because the sideplate inlet was already in...used a #6-32 to lessen some of the interference. The brass is outstanding, requiring very little filing, the 5 dovetails for the bbl lugs and front sight were done, enough wood for carving and the inlets are partially done and mainly need the corners cut in. The wood could be harder but did carving on all three w/ good results. Presently am building an early Lancaster using all Chambers' parts but from my blank. Had to send back "kits" from 2 other suppliers because of bad inlets, badly warped stocks and lousy wood, so am "gunshy" and buy only from Chambers, especially locks....Fred

 

[Tommy Bruce]

in my opinion as far as the barrel dovetail goes i recently purchased a c weight .54 from Rice and because of the inexperience i had them do the underlug dovetails for me this way i have no fear of them being in the wrong spot, it was an additional $20.00 which imo is money well spent and the breech plug was installed by them. i too will be building my first rifle from parts kits this winter and plan on having certain things done by people with experience do them for me. i will still be proud of the rifle as i will be doing 90% of the work my self but certain things i feel should be done by an experienced gun builder as their knowledge and experience is crucial to our safety and the guns shootability. i am lucky enough to have an accomplished gun builder within 15 minutes of me which when i get my parts i will have him do some of the work that i am not comfortable with. i guess what im trying to say is most any gun will shoot well but imo it takes the experience of a builder such as Mike Brooks or others mentioned on the forum knowing where to locate certain things to make them shoot great.

Nothing wrong with that logic at all. I still get "adult supervison" when I need and will probably continue to do so. There's a wealth of information out there and most builders are really good with sharing it.