L&R DICKERT LOCK

[Zonie]

I'm not a very happy camper right now.

I ordered a brand new L&R Dickert Lock for my Buck County rifle because the shape is very close to the rifles shown in RCA and Thoughts on...

The service from Muzzleloader Builders Supply was great and getting my order took only a few days but I can't say I'm happy with the new lock.

I don't hold MBS responcible (althought you would at least think they would have noticed this.

Notice that the lower jaw of the cock is resting on the fence while the stop surface on the cock is .050 above the bolster.

I'm mulling over the best way to fix this.
The most obvious is to bend the upper part of the cock so that it clears the fence.
The other option is to solder a .063 thick piece of steel to the stop surface of the cock.

I could send the lock back but then I'd be out the postage and I don't know whether Susie has another lock which is any better.

Anyway, now that I've grumbled here I feel a little better but perhaps this will be useful to some new builders.
Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's built right. :cursing:

PS: For those builders just getting into Flintlocks, the cock is supposed to stop against the bolster when it's in the down position
and some locks tumblers stop on the bridle when the cock is down but in no case should the cock hit the fence like this one is doing.

 

[captgary]

WOW !!!! I dont know anything about

flintlock's, and even I can see that

aint going to work. One thing im learning

is its not how many mistakes you make

but how you fix the ones you make

and the ones you inheret :cursing:

 

[BLAHMAN]

Holy Cow!

Make that double Holy Cow!

Gotta wonder how that escaped somebody's inspection, doesn't it?

I think if I were to attempt a fix on that I would heat the neck of the cock to bend the cock upwards so the jaw doesn't hit the fence. That may allow the stop on the cock's neck to land on the bolster as planned.

However you do it Zonie, I'm sure you can fix it!

Good luck!

 

[rich pierce]

I'd send it back. Otherwise you lose all warranties or hope of warranties if something else goes bad, and L&R does not get direct feedback on the problem.

 

[Roy]

You can bend the cock, but then it appears you will also have to remove some metal on the bottom of the tumbler since it will move in a lower position and off the plate. I am losing faith in L&R locks. :shake:

 

[LRB]

Zonie, I agree with Rich, send it to L&R, or at least call about it.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, that is sure different ... :hmm:

I would call Susie & see if she will take it back. It is a new lock, no reason why she should not back it & send you a new one...... She is supposed to be selling quality parts & this is obviously a flawed lock.... If for some reason she won't, then I would call L&R & see if they will SWAP the entire lock out.

Please Let Us Know what happens...........

 

[rich pierce]

Although I would not fix it and instead would return it, the way to fix such a problem is as you suggested, Zonie, by soldering or welding or riveting a piece of steel to the cock to make it stop against the bolster at the right time. Old repairs such as this sometimes appear to be riveted.

L&R uses a heavy press to install the cock on the tumbler. I am guessing (pure hunch) this one got mis-aligned. If that is the case, then it's going to get wobbly on the tumbler someday with use, as the contact between the square hole and the square shaft will be off.

I like L&R locks and used them when I started building in 1977. They offered new designs when there was almost nothing out there. Back then it was not uncommon for lots of lock makers to have casting problems, etc and we took problems as a matter of course. I went on gunbuilding holiday for 20 years and am now amazed at the variety and quality of components and kits available. For sure, any company should have an inspector with good eyes who would see something like this before it got out the door. Returning it to L&R (through Susie) at least gives them a chance to know one slipped through and may help them look a little more carefully before shipping.

 

[Treerat]

Understand that my only experience with building/tuning locks is assembleing a few Siler kits but wouldn't bending the cock mean takeing a big chance that the flint would hit the frizzen at a bad angle? Send that sucker back. Whats worse,being out some postage or being out over $100 for a lock that isn't any good?

 

I would send it back. Call Suzie first, and have her make the call on makin it right. You bend the cock, and you will be messing with the geometry, and who knows what new problems you will create. MBS is a class operation, and I know she'll fix it for you, and fast. Bill

 

[rebuse]

Zonie,
Did you get the lock from L&R directly, through TOTW or some other dealer? As disappointing as it is to get something that doesn't work, it's often times easier and less frustrating to send an Item back and get a replacement. Try and fix it yourself, and run the chance of messing it up even further, not from inexperience, but out of frustration and anger. Emotions can play into performance with anything.

Preacher :hatsoff:

 

[lanedh]

Zonie:

If you're going to fix it yourself, perhaps judicious bending of the cock is indicated. Or you could add a filler strip to the top of the bolster, but then you'll have to remove wood from the stock to allow the additional width. In any case don't grind the lower jaw or the fence to create the needed clearance, else the tumbler will rotate further downward and the toe under the mainspring will interfere with the stock.

My opinion is that L&R should not have let this one out the door; you are entitiled to a no-cost replacement.

v/r, Bluejacket

 

[brian turpin]

Zonie, just call L&R. Maybe you can send them the same picture you have here. I'll bet they make it right without a fuss.
Bimbo

 

[Erzulis boat]

L&R...........

After seeing some of their stuff, I don't even consider them anymore...and I am only on build 4.
Unless of course the style is the only option, as in your case.
I got the "John Bailes" lock, and ended up buying a bunch of loose replacement parts and building it anew. I had to make a new custom bridle so the screws were parallel.
That modafrack is still sitting on the bench.
You being an engineer just makes this kind of stuff more unbearable I am sure!
As I get older, my "Oh well's" become "Hell no's".
That one might be a coin tosser though, if the frizzen and pan are aligned real good, what are the odds of another with the hammer being Ok AND having a square frizzen!?
I would rather tweak a hammer than re-engineer a frizzen. :shake:

 

[Zonie]

Not wishing to fool with the postage at this time of the year, I decided to bend the cock.

To do this, I dug out my old wood splitting wedge.
Putting this between the lower jaw and the neck, a few good whacks with the hammer raised the lower jaw enough to just clear the fence.
To give it a little working room, I filed about .010 off of the top of the fence which created about .015 clearance. Not much, but it's enough.

The lower arm of the tumbler is about .030 above the bottom of the lockplate so I figure if I cut the inner lock mortice about flush with the mortice that the lockplate sits in it will be about right.

I installed a flint and tried it several times. It is hitting about 1/4 below the top of the frizzen and scraping down the full length of the frizzen face without jumping or producing gaps.
It also gives a good shower of sparks, so I think the problem is solved.

For those who were worried about the effect all of this might have on the gun, thanks for your concern. I haven't recieved the stock and barrel yet so everything is fine.

Fpr what it's worth, after having this problem, I've looked at every catalog that offers the Dickert lock. Every very one of them has a picture that shows the lower jaw very close to the fence, to the point that I might guess that they are hitting too.
This might be inherent with L&Rs Dickert lock.
Anyone else out there have one and if so, is there much clearance in this area?

Thanks again for your words of wisdom.

 

[LRB]

Whenever possible go Chambers. And go Chambers direct. L&R has some good locks, and some not so good. None are as good as Chambers in my experience

 

[rich pierce]

Helped a friend build a Beck with a Dickert lock in 1978. Still sparks wonderfully. His is close to the fence. Just check anmd make sure that the tumbler smacking into the bridle is not the only thing stopping the forward travel of the cock. I'd not want that strain on the bridle.

 

[Zonie]

Thanks Rich: On this lock there is no chanch of the tumbler hitting anything on the bridle.
The flat on the tumbler that might stop on the bridle is a good 1/4 inch from the bridle.
In other words, the upper bridle screw is going down thru a cast leg that is about .200 in diameter so there is nothing for the tumbler to stop on. :hmm:

I guess this brings up the specter of the tumbler shaft or the cock breaking and with nothing positive like a stop for the tumbler I can envision the mainspring driving the bottom of the tumbler thru the bottom of my stock. :shocked2: :shocked2:
Had I been aware of this possibility, I might have bought a different lock with a positive internal stop designed into it.

 

[Herb]

Used a Dickert 3 or 4 years ago, and yes, the bottom of the jaw barely hits the fence on the pan. Marks the bottom of the jaw, but the shoulder of the hammer hits the top of the plate like it should. Both seem to have the same wear.

 

[CrackStock]

I would contact Bill and discuss it with him.
[url] http://www.lr-rpl.com/[/url]

2328 Cains Mill Road
Sumter, South Carolina 29154
Phone 803-481-5790 Ӣ (Fax) 803-481-5795

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