L&R Lock for Lyman GPR

[Randall Slemp]

Hello All:

My first post. Glad to join this group as I have gained a great deal of knowledge from all the fine folks here who have offered advice and tips to new flint shooters in working out the kinks and getting their new rifles working reliably. Thanks to you I believe I am making good progress in this process as well.

I recently purchased a .54 Lyman GPR flint and am in the process of working out the kinks to improve the reliablity and generally tune the rifle in. However, I have a question for those of you who have upgraded to the L&R replacement lock for your GPR -has the lock/ignition time noticably improved with this upgrade? In other words is the new lock significantly "faster" in getting the shot off than the factory lock (all other things being equal)?

Thanks for your help with this rookie question.

 

[RADeO]

Hello MorningMan. Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. While I myself don't have any experience with the L&R lock about which you ask, there are plenty of good and learned folks here who will be pleased to offer you advice.

Again, welcome! :hatsoff:

 

[Oldnamvet]

I upgraded my GPR with the L&R lock. I also put in a set of Davis deerslayer triggers. The lock was nice and may have improved things but the triggers really made a difference. Much more crisp and, if you will, comfortable to use. Just feels a lot nicer.

 

[phoenix511]

I've got one and it is the best investment you can make in that rifle.

In my opinion, the original coil springs are "mushy" and seem slower than the flat spring on the replacement L&R,plus the springs and frizzen are properly heat treated. (Not to say the Lyman's aren't, but my L&R throws much more sparks than the Lyman did.)

The the L&R tumbler is a better fit on the lock plate and much less friction than the Lyman original.

Throw of the hammer is less than the Lyman original, which to me means faster ignition.

Expect to do some work relieving the inletting on the lock recess to allow for the flat main spring. Its not difficult, and the L&R instructions that come with the lock are clear.

 

[Semisane]

I've had the opposite experience from Wet Willie. Bought an L&R lock to convert a percussion Pedersoli to flint. The original lock on my GPR sparks better and is faster than the L&R.

 

[gl1200a]

I have the Investarm Hawken, basically the same rifle. We tried everything to make it better. Tuned the lock, White Ligtnin vent liner, priming powders etc. It was slow.
Put the L&R lock on it and the difference was night and day.
Best 130 bucks I've ever spent on any firearm.

 

[Rifleman1776]

L&R is a quality product. Your performance should improve dramatically. (provided it is installed properly and parts are not rubbing.)

 

[ebiggs1]

I have done this mod several times to flint GPR's and once to a concussion GPR.

Should I do the upgrade? :hmm: Probably, yes!
It is better? :hmm: Probably, yes!

What is the biggest mod for making a GPR shoot reliably? A 5/64th touch hole. :thumbsup:
With that done either lock will work. :hatsoff:

Is the L&R lock faster? No. It is different (good or bad) but not any quicker. :hmm:

This is really all you need to do to the lock to make the original GPR lock work better. You do not need the lead wrap or you can use it. It makes no difference. I was just experimenting on making this poor shooter a good shooter. :thumbsup:
(The extra piece of leather under the flint!)

The next, easy, less costly mod is a TC cock replacement. This works well.

See the difference? :grin: The TC cock is taller.

I promote the L&R lock and if it is what you want, than by all means do it. It is a very nice lock and the L&R people (Bill) are also very nice.
BTW, it is not a “drop-in” mod. :hmm:

Is the Davis trigger a good mod? Absolutely, YES! :thumbsup:

BTW 2, replacing the concussion GPR lock is a waste of time and money. The GPR, or TC, lock is just fine and no improvement is noticed. :haha:

 

[leslie]

There is one thing about this sport that to me defies logic and that is buying a factory rifle and then immediately replacing a bunch of the parts and running up the cost very close to what a semi-custom will cost that can have all the upgrades as original equipment.The semi-custom will be fitted to your specific lop et al in addition.I am not being critical just my observation and not worth much.

 

[Randall Slemp]

Many thanks to all of you for your responses. I appreciate the warm welcome and value your experience and taking the time to provide clear and direct answers.

As I said I've been working through the tuneup process and so far have drilled the touch hole liner to .067 using a #51 drill, and this has helped, but may go ahead and drill with the #50 since I have it already and try that before moving to 5/64. I was glad to hear that most have had positive experience with the L&R. The L&R lock is good looking and has a period look particularly when coupled with the Davis trigger set (thanks for those pictures Mr. Biggs). I will also look into the T/C cock.

This flint shooting is a whole new world which I had avoided because I knew it was time consuming from watching my brother-in-law use his custom longrifle (built in Kentucky in the mid 60's). I opted then (1971) for a Zoli built Zouave which was fun but have not fired in years. My wife recently joined the DAR and encouraged me to buy a flintlock (how often does that happen?). Anyway, this is a real challenge requiring time and patience which I have more of since I am retired now.

Thanks again men, will put your feedback to good use as I move forward with my GPR.

Randy

 

[Stumpkiller]

There is one thing about this sport that to me defies logic and that is buying a factory rifle and then immediately replacing a bunch of the parts and running up the cost very close to what a semi-custom will cost that can have all the upgrades as original equipment.The semi-custom will be fitted to your specific lop et al in addition.I am not being critical just my observation and not worth much.

It's not limited to muzzleloading. Partially it is a desire to create something unique - occasionally using what's on hand and available but often just because it's fun. Sporterized military weapons have been and continue to be done beautifully down to butcher & hack jobs and everywhere in between. Geeks buy bare frames and assemble great and powerful PC's from sourced parts. Kids buy a Honda and try to make a sports car out of it. Etc., Etc. Nobody wants a cookie-cutter blah anything that is the same as everyone else's. That's just human nature.

Then there is the satisfaction of bending something to your whims and wishes so it works better for your intentions. As Tim Allen used to say: "Tweak it a little bit."

I'm rebuilding a 20 year old lawn tractor just for the heck of it and because I love putzing around. I'm painting it up like an old 1950's red-belly Ford just to amuse myself and passers-by.

 

[leslie]

I build my own computers but thats similar to building a rifle,I too tinker with old machinery and make it do my bidding that stuff I understand.But I would not buy a new computer, tear it apart adding misc. parts then discard the original parts.Must be my Scotish ancestry,ah well.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I agree. I never tear anything apart that's still under warranty. ;-)



Usually.

 

[ebiggs1]

I believe your thinking is flawed. If cost is your only goal let's look and see if your point is a valid one.
You can buy a GPR in the $475-$490 dollar range. An extra piece of leather stuck underneath the flint is almost free, so we can't even consider it in the original cost. The TC replacement cock, if you buy a new one, is $18 bucks. OK, we are a little north of $400 now. The L&R is around $130 dollars. It would make a substantial cost upgrade but still much less than any fully functioning custom rifle I am aware of.
Then the bottom line is with the L&R lock and the very good Lyman barrel, you have a gun that will shoot with any bodies. I don't care where is came from. I know I have both and did pay the premium.
If you buy the GPR used , well let's say there is no comparison at all, if cost was your goal.

 

[shortbow]

If your wife just joined the DAR, tell her that to be in real sync, you need a genoooine, made to order Golden Age longrifle. Tell her somewhere between five and ten grand should cover it nicely. :rotf:

 

[Randall Slemp]

Yes Sir, that was what I told her initially. But since it is OUR money and there's no way I was going to spend that kind of money, I told her that I'd do some research and come up with something that made sense economically. From this site, and the opinions floating around, I determined that the GPR represented good value for not a lot of money (I'm pretty cheap anyway). After shooting it enough to work through some of the issues that seem to be the weaknesses, I'm still very pleased with it even though it's clearly not Revolutionary War period - more like 1820-30's in it's general styling seems to me. Perhaps I will upgrade the lock and triggers to improve it - or maybe not. I'm still enjoying the challenge, including all the accessories and the rest (horn, possibles bag, patch knife, flint & steel, etc.) that go with these period weapons and that life style. A whole new world of research - it's great! Thanks for your post.

 

[leslie]

I think you need to review your math,I think you are pushing $700.If you can find a GPR with a good barrel and stock used at an appropriate price,then I would gladly change out the trigger and the lock.As an aside I think installing a Davis trigger is the best improvement you can make to a GPR,The locks are usually very good with a little tuning.I don't think the L&R locks are $130 better.

 

[ebiggs1]

The figures are correct for the last one I bought. I see they have gone up $25 bucks or so. Mid-South list GPRs, in stock, for $$499.38 complete and kit for $401.52.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031105
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031114

I am sure you can get the deal on a GPR to $700 or more, but you don't need to unless you just have an abundance of money. I have done this three times for my self an once for each son. The last one was a kit (not a fully functioning gun) and I paid under $400 for it (brand new). Bought the L&R and Davis and sold the stock Lyman (brand new) lock and trigger for a $100. I have $470 in that one, plus some time. I'll give you your due, do you know of a place where you can buy a fully functioning custom rifle with similar features for less than $700 bucks? I am unaware of any but that does not mean there isn't one.

Used prices can be from $200 the $400 so there you are, who knows!

There is a poh-paw in my post, however, in the...”we are a little north of $400 now. ”¦! It should have said, “we are a little north of $500 now.” I need a new keyboard this one makes too many typo's.

Whether the L&R is “worth” the extra money is a position the buyer has to make. It is without doubt a much better lock that the Lyman, tuned or not. Ya gotta remember
I am a TC fan and not that much on the Lyman GPR but the fact of the matter is the GPR is the best bang for the buck. so to say. there is out there.

 

[leslie]

I sure don't want to beat this to death but $500+$130+$50 and we are getting very close to $700,Thats for the GPR,L&R and Davis.I agree I am not a fan of GPRs,mainly because of weight,fit and balance.I won a GPR in a raffle,gave it to my son he loves it.To each his own.A couple years ago I scrounged up all the pieces and made a rifle that was pretty much just an assembly and finish job for a whole lot less than $700.It takes some effort but it can be done.

 

[leslie]

To get back on topic why don't you shoot the GPR a while and see how it works for you.A good blackpowder gunsmith might be able to tune the lock if it doesn't function to your satisfaction.Don't fix it if it ain't broke.