Land and groove question?

[dan101955]

Can you tell by the land and groove measurements,what ball and patch you can use in a black powder rifle?
My measurements are .505 and .497
What ball size would I use?
Dan

 

[Black Hand]

You could try a 0.490 ball and 0.010/0.015 patch.

 

[cynthialee]

What type of rifle is this and what is the twist of your barrel?

 

[dan101955]

50 cal t c Hawken 1/ 24 twist.
Dan

 

[cynthialee]

Then you will want to go with conicals in that barrel.
You can probably find an acceptable PRB load with it, but it was designed with conicals in mind.

I like TC Maxi Hunters.

But something to be said for casting your own. Plenty of molds available for that gun.

 

[mooman76]

Like stated it was designed with conicals in mind. You can also do paper patched bullets and it should do well with those. PRB should still shoot ok with the right combo if you keep the loads down to a reasonable level. Start off with like 50gr.

 

[nhmoose]

RB and patch will work at the lower powder amounts.

Start at 35 grains work up and see where accuracy goes sour.

 

[cynthialee]

what are your plans for this rifle?
Targets or hunting?

 

[dan101955]

About 65 target 35 hunting...
Possibly some shoots and competitions.

 

[dan101955]

Why ? Designed for conicals?

 

[rodwha]

Shallow grooves and fast twist. The faster the twist the longer the projectile it can stabilize.

 

[cynthialee]

hmmm...

Now that gun can do both. I believe to optimize performance with that barrel you will need to shoot conicals. One can get acceptable performance with roundballs in that gun, but you are not going to win many competitions. Now if you are loading it with conicals with the right powder charge, and your shooting is up to par then it will perform rather well. But that is a lot of lead per shot. With all the practice needed to prepare for such a contest it will add up fast. Now I couldn't shoot conicals that much. After a few shots I get bruised up.

I'd suggest getting a roundball barrel for that rifle if you want to compete in shooting matches. And save the fast twist barrel for the hunt.

 

[rodwha]

Have you shot conicals through it yet? Curious as to what you may have tried and what your results were if you had.

Idahoron has tried many types and found that a Lee .500 bullet sized down and paper patched is the most accurate for him. Others have also found this to be true. It's a big heavy bullet.

I've only tried the 320 grn Lee REAL in my 1:48" twist and it did well at 50 yds. Just haven't worked up anything with it or tried it further but I will.

 

[dan101955]

I have only shot round ball with it.
Dan

 

[dan101955]

Where would I get a round ball barrel for it?
Dan

 

[cynthialee]

How has it been working for you?

A roundball barrel can be found but it will take some searching. Green Mountain used to make a drop in roundball barrel for that rifle and the TC company had a custom shop that sold them. But both are no longer selling them. But there are plenty of them out there. Just need to look for them.

 

[Tom Compton]

50 cal t c Hawken 1/ 24 twist.
Dan

I never knew TC made a Hawken w 1:24 twist. I thought all were 1:48 with .004-.005" deep grooves BUT they could have changed/added a lot of stuff in the last 20-30 years.

A roundball and patch only engages the rifling in a very narrow band around the circumference of the ball. A minie type has 2-3 or even 4 bands that engage the rifling and each of those is wider than that of a roundball.

When the gun is fired the projectile tries not to move in any direction. The forward thrust causes what we know as recoil. The resistance to spinning can cause a projectile to slip on the rifling causing unstabilized flight. Both of these are readily visualized in firing a magnum pistol. Recoil raises the barrel and torque twists the gun.

A heavy load in a fast twist shallow groove rifle w a looser ball and patch combination can strip the rifling (similar to hard acceleration on a wet road w slick tires) traction is lost and you get a knuckle ball effect.

TC

 

[bubba.50]

if it's a factory T/C Hawken barrel then the twist would be 1 in 48 so, did yer ramrod make about 1/2 a turn in the length of the barrel when ya checked it?

and while people still parrot that old line about 1 in 48 bein' a "compromise twist" or "mediocre" or "jack-of-all-trades" twist, none other than Jake & Sam Hawken made tons of guns with that twist & I've never heard anybody say they made inferior or mediocre guns.

if you do the work 99 times out of 100 they can shoot yer preferred projectile with excellent accuracy. I have nothin' against roundballs except all the fuss & bother of loadin' them but, most of the time I use maxi-balls or Lee r.e.a.l.'s

 

[dan101955]

It's 1 in 48 I made a mistake ...
Dan

 

[rodwha]

That changes everything.

I'd certainly start with a .490" ball. That doesn't leave much with what's left over so I'd guess a 0.010" patch might be where I'd start.

My Lyman barrel states that it's roughly .502 x .520" and I use a .490" ball with 0.015/6" patches for a fairly tight fit.

It seems most people claim that a tight fitting patch equates to better accuracy. Some hammer theirs down it's so tight. That's too tight for me but then I don't shoot in matches.

As for conicals I'd try the 320 grn REAL with and without a felt wad. And many like Maxis or the Hornady Great Plains.