Last English sporting flintlocks?

[Canuck Bob]

I am looking to start research on very late flintlocks of the English sporting or rook rifle style. I have decided to collect two flintlock guns that are decent replicas. The first will be a Northwest Guns Chief grade lefty trade gun to honor the fur trade that so much defined my country into the 19th century. The second and the rifle discussed here of a sporting rifle as might be carried by sporting gentleman.

Also any historical references or links to the Canadian sporting flintlock rifles of the 19th century would be appreciated.

Pictures would be appreciated of these sporting rifles. I am lookng for info specifically on light stalking rifles, rook rifles in modern terms, with classic pistol grip stocks. My idea is to build a kit this year and then build a stalking rifle from scratch in the future.

 

[kbuck]

Bob:
I am certainly no expert and it is doubtful whether I can find any published information to defend my point. However, since so many flintlocks extant at the time of the introduction of the percussion lock were converted, I woud think that not many examples of what you want are to be found. Even new (then) flintlocks were converted to percussion. I am sure there were those who felt that flint remained the superior system, but even their rifles were probably converted eventually. I believe that Davy Crockett's rifle was taken from the Alamo, passed around over the years, and was converted to percussion at one point. Keep Googling, you'll find something relevant! "Late flint" might be easier to research if the rifles are limited to military, rather than sporting. Like I said, I may be totally off base with my answer. If you do find anything, please post. This is an interesting question.

 

[LaBonte]

English sporting rifles of the 1770-1820 era - the middle one is circa 1820 and is the epitome of the type...

Halfstock sporting rifles like #2 were available via British fur trading posts as well as being sold south of the border in places such as St Louis, Pittsburgh, Detroit, et al.
Tatham continued to make half-stock flint sporting rifles up through the 1850's

American made rifles were also available North of the Border

 

[Dphar]

I am looking to start research on very late flintlocks of the English sporting or rook rifle style. I have decided to collect two flintlock guns that are decent replicas. The first will be a Northwest Guns Chief grade lefty trade gun to honor the fur trade that so much defined my country into the 19th century. The second and the rifle discussed here of a sporting rifle as might be carried by sporting gentleman.

Also any historical references or links to the Canadian sporting flintlock rifles of the 19th century would be appreciated.

Pictures would be appreciated of these sporting rifles. I am lookng for info specifically on light stalking rifles, rook rifles in modern terms, with classic pistol grip stocks. My idea is to build a kit this year and then build a stalking rifle from scratch in the future.

You might look for a photo of a Tatham Indian Trade Rifle. These were 54 caliber and were light stalking rifles by British standards.
Bailey's "British Military Flintlock Rifles" has a good description and many photos of these which are very much like a good grade English flintlock rifle of 1815-1820.
Dan

 

[Walks with fire]

I like #2 rifle a whole bunch.

 

[LaBonte]

Addendum:
The rook rifle is a late 19th - early 20th Century product, not a product of the flint era. Here's a good book on the subject. http://www.amazon.com/Classic-British-Rook-Rabbit-Rifle/dp/1861268807

During the flint era as Dan noted the Tatham, which was intended for the North American market, in 54 caliber, was by British standards considered very light. Here's pics of an original a Tatham: http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=37721&sale=264

Flint era English sporting rifles, even the deer rifles, were generally 20-16 bore as a minimum.

And pics of a Manton sporting rifle: http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=37720&sale=264

A light weight percussion sporting rifle: http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/264/images/org/37412.jpg

As for pistol grip stocks, while I have seen a few on mid-19th Century rifles they are generally a later period style - during the flint era the curved with loop metal trigger guard was by far the most common style. Can't think of ever seeing a flint era English Rifle with a pistol grip - how about you Dan?

Recommendation for the NW Chief's gun: North Star West makes one of the best available and comes in kit form, in the white, or complete. http://www.northstarwest.com/chiefs_grade.aspx

 

[Canuck Bob]

The #2 rifle really catches my eye as well. That is the style I wish to emulate.

Well go figure, the HC bug has bit me?

The post on the common practice of converting late flintlocks is quite helpful as well. One should look at all rifles of the age and check for conversion during reseaerch.

 

[Canuck Bob]

English sporting rifles of the 1770-1820 era - the middle one is circa 1820 and is the epitome of the type...

Halfstock sporting rifles like #2 were available via British fur trading posts as well as being sold south of the border in places such as St Louis, Pittsburgh, Detroit, et al.
Tatham continued to make half-stock flint sporting rifles up through the 1850's

American made rifles were also available North of the Border

It appears that the top rifle has a swamped octagon barrel. The centerrifle has a tapered octagon and the bottom a swamped fowler style. Interesting that barrel style is open. The Manton has the fowler type as well.