Late Flintlock Lock for I.D.

[rickystl]

Hello all. I picked this Lock Plate up while at the Antique Arms Show in Hartford earlier this month. Thought it would be a nice addition to my lock collection. Just needs to be dis-assembled and cleaned a bit more. It's in really nice shape and shows very little use.
A very late English flintlock dated 1835. Internal frizzen spring, and exterior slide safety. The outside of the plate has the WR and a Crown. There is a small crown, and what appears to be a broad arrow through it located between the hammer and pan fence. Inside, the only markings are a small crown with a 8 just below it, and a tiny 6 higher up on the plate.
If you look in TRS Catalog on page 51 there is a Pattern 1833 Manton Carbine (747) that has an identical lock. Even the measurements in the Catalog match this lock. Although this lock is a forging vs a casting. So it appears I have the real thing.
I was hoping maybe someone could provide me with some additional information on this lock beyond the information in TRS Catalog?
This lock must have been used just before the transition to percussion.
Anyway, here are some photos. Any additional information appreciated. Thanks. Rick. :hatsoff:





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[Trench]

I don't know anything about it, but I love the internal frizzen spring!

 

[robinghewitt]

That will be William IV who reigned from 1830 and was followed by Victoria in 1837.

Your best bet has to be British Military Firearms 1650-1850 by Howard L Blackmore

 

[rickystl]

Hi Squire. Thanks for the help. That's the second time I've been reminded to order that book. I will do so today while I'm thinking about it. I'm sure that's a must have for a library.
Forgot to mention, there is another feature of this lock I've never seen before. There is a small thin plate covering the sear spring. It fits just inside the spring. At first, I thought this was just maybe a dust cover. But on further examination it seems to be designed to let the sear spring travel only so far. :hmm: But it works fine. Just another very late detail I guess. :idunno: Thanks again. I'll get that book ordered. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Rod Lassey]

It looks like the tumbler bears against the shoulder of the rear lock bolt hole when the cock is at rest. Very nice!

Rod

 

[jdkerstetter]

Good catch Rod. I overlooked that until you pointed it out. The usual arangement has the tumbler stopping against the top of the bridle and the force applied to it's rather small screw.

This is a much sturdier arangement and I don't recall seeing it before. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[pargent]

:thumbsup:

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Rod and JD for your comments. Seems like this lock incorporated all the latest thinking and upgrades. When placing the hammer in half or full cock position the lock is strong, yet very smooth and positive. I can tell the frizzen has been struck, but it was a long time ago. Never seen one like this before. Sure makes an interesting addition to a lock collection.
Thanks again for all the help. Rick. :hatsoff:

Squire: Found a copy of that book on Amazon. Said it was in like new condition - and a good price. So I bought it. Thanks.

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello, Ricky

The small plate inside the trigger spring is the spring that serves the slide lock. If you look at the nut, has a small notch where insurance comes in ñthe half-cock position.
Sorry for the translation.

Affectionately. Fernando K

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello, Ricky

Starring The insurance method is on the nut sliding, but in this instance acts on the cock. Surely this has a notch for the policy becomes half-cock.

The "broad arrow" denotes ownership of the Crown, so that is a key (lock) regulatory

Sorry for the translation

Affectionately. Fernando K

 

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando!
Now that is interesting. :hmm: As I write this I am at work. So I will check this out when I get home. Thanks! Rick. :hatsoff:
This lock is becoming more interesting all the time. :haha:

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello, Ricky

This is the key (lock) of a Manton rifle model 1833, .66 caliber and barrel 36 ". Between July 1835 and July 1837 were built 1000.'s Contraplatina (side plate) model ees New Land, with the Central wood screw.
On 8 is the punch crowned Checker Board of Ordnance.

Sorry for the translation-

Affectionately. Fernando K

 

[robinghewitt]

This is the key (lock) of a Manton rifle model 1833

By Jingo Fernanado is right on the money. I am looking at a picture of Manton's carbine, Pattern 1833 and it has this lock on the side of it. Blackmore's book page 176 :thumbsup:

 

[gunmaker43]

Do I sense a re-creation of a Manton carbine in the wind ? With that lock would be a great project. Put it back to work....Tom

 

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando!
Agreed. Pattern 1833 Manton Carbine.
The lock has a typical half cock notch on the tumbler, like other flintlocks. There is a cut out on the hammer that allows the slide safety to move forward into the cut out - but only in the half cock position. You can't move the hammer to full cock without sliding the external safety backwards. It's like a double safety. Very neat. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Squire.
I received my copy of Blackmore's book. It's in as new condition. Should have bought this book a long time ago. I'm looking on the same page. Sure enough, there it is.
As mentioned in my first post above, if you have a copy of The Rifle Shoppe catalog, it's also shown there.
This lock appears to be the very last design of the British Military flintlock. Thanks for everyone's help and confirmation. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Tom.
OHHHH........it's so tempting. But it's such a great addition to my lock collection. I was lucky to have noticed it at the Show.
You're right. It would make a really neat project. The lock would not really look right on any other type custom gun - except the Military Pattern 1833. I could order everything except the lock from TRS. It would probably take at least a couple years to get the parts anyway :haha: So for now, I'll just hang on and admire it. Thanks, Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello, Ricky.

I'm a little confused by your words, or because of the translation, not quite understand, the slide lock only acts on the trigger (hamer). In the photograph of 8/11/13, does not look any notch in the nut (tumbler)

Affectionately. Fernando K

 

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando.
Yes, there is a half-cock notch on the tumbler, like a typical flintlock. The slide safety acts like a second safety. Most unusual. You can't see the half-cock notch on the tumbler in the above photos. I'll take some additional photos this week and post again. Very interesting. Thanks, Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando!
Here are some additional photos.
The first photo shows the cut out in the hammer. The slide safety will only move forward and release while in the half-cock position.
The second photo shows the slide safety engaged in the slot while at half-cock.
The third photo shows the hammer at full cock position. Notice the half-cock notch on the tumbler. The hammer will stay locked in the half-cock position even without using the external safety. So the outside safety acts like a secondary safety.
Don't know if all this makes sense to you? :haha:
Rick. :hatsoff: