Lead casting, flux, temp, etc

[Freedom]

There has been lead casting slag found at the mountain man encampments on Henry's Lake, near the Idaho/Montana border.

Mountain men also knew about the dangers of lead and cooking.. they called it the never-ending bellyache, and they never mixed lead items with food sources or utensils. Captain Clark mentions this in his journals

 

[Sparkytfl]

I bought an infrared thermometer to measure mold temperatures. It reads very low, like it says 140 after casting fifty minies and the mold is hot enough to burn me through my leather gloves. Pointing it at the lead in the pot reads several hundred low too.

Haven't tried a laser thermometer, although I do have one, I recall that it doesn't work well with shining objects.

 

[Jim K]

Where can you get a lead thermometer? My balls come out bluish. I just shoot em. But can’t decide if I’m to hot or to cool.

 

[Redlemur60]

Probably melted the lead in the same pot that they later cooked their stew in.

Mmmmmmm led !

 

[Sparkytfl]

Where can you get a lead thermometer? My balls come out bluish. I just shoot em. But can’t decide if I’m to hot or to cool.

Ebay, Midway, maybe your local store, Rotometals (great place to order lead of known good quality). Blue means your lead is hot. I get blue when I'm casting my 40 cal balls because it's a single-cavity mold and I need to keep it hot because so little lead goes into the mold that it won't stay hot enough to prevent wrinkles if I run my pot any lower than the mid 800s.

 

[82Tank]

Where can you get a lead thermometer? My balls come out bluish. I just shoot em. But can’t decide if I’m to hot or to cool.

Used to get blue balls, but I'm too old now. Sorry, someone had to say it.

 

[Whughett]

I’ve always found it a bit odd that the simple task of melting lead and pouring it into a mold seems a complicated task to some, especially something as simple as a round ball. Other than the ability to seat the ball in a revolver hardness has little bearing at the velocities generated with black powder. Not a rifle shooter so if it matters in a patched ball situation I stand corrected by any that care to.
In conicals or rifle bullets with complicated grooves lead and mold temperature becomes more important. Pure lead may not fill out the bullets profile easily so tin is added to facilitate the leads fluidity. Antimony adds hardness Hardness gives the bullet more resistance to leading the bore at higher velocities, gives better penetration on game animals but may decrease its expansion. In times past I read of cast lead rifle bullets that were poured using pure lead for the nose with a harder alloy poured over that for the driving bands and base. I’ve cast tens of thousands of lead pistol bullets and balls but until recently few rifle bullets.

 

[dave951]

DO NOT DO THIS
Lead vapor will begin to form around 800F degrees. This vapor is a very bad thing, and easily avoided.

Dials on the Lee pots are completely useless for determining temperature, there's no uniformity from one pot to the next.

Often wrinkles are caused from oil in the cavity so clean your mold cavity spotless with Qtips and acetone.
As a coincidence, wrinkles do often go away with an overheated mold....Because the oil burns off and the wrinkles go away. The root cause is not temperature related.

Lube pins, plate, and hinge very lightly with 2-stroke oil.

NO IT DOESN'T.

Metallurgy 101. Lead doesn't vaporize till about 1200F. Your pot will never get that high.

 

[Davey Boy]

Where can you get a lead thermometer? My balls come out bluish. I just shoot em. But can’t decide if I’m to hot or to cool.

You can get an electronic thermometer that uses a Type K thermocouple for about $23 on Amazon, meter includes two Type K probes.

 

[waksupi]

DO NOT DO THIS
Lead vapor will begin to form around 800F degrees. This vapor is a very bad thing, and easily avoided.

Dials on the Lee pots are completely useless for determining temperature, there's no uniformity from one pot to the next.

Often wrinkles are caused from oil in the cavity so clean your mold cavity spotless with Qtips and acetone.
As a coincidence, wrinkles do often go away with an overheated mold....Because the oil burns off and the wrinkles go away. The root cause is not temperature related.
Lube pins, plate, and hinge very lightly with 2-stroke oil.

Lead does not out-gas until around 1170 degees.

 

[waksupi]

Some here would benefit by spending some time at Castboolits.com.

 

[dave951]

Some here would benefit by spending some time at Castboolits.com.

Darn skippy on that. Better to do a little Googly Fu and be right than spout wrong information.

FWIW, I was at a N-SSA Skirmish this weekend and we touched on this very subject. The part I found interesting was one of the old timers was telling me of a doc in the late 70s who did a lead test on N-SSA members thinking they'd be prime candidates for elevated levels. It's not like each of us doesn't cast a couple thousand bullets a year each or more. Results- zip, zero, nada, no higher than the general population.

 

[Whughett]

Darn skippy on that. Better to do a little Googly Fu and be right than spout wrong information.

FWIW, I was at a N-SSA Skirmish this weekend and we touched on this very subject. The part I found interesting was one of the old timers was telling me of a doc in the late 70s who did a lead test on N-SSA members thinking they'd be prime candidates for elevated levels. It's not like each of us doesn't cast a couple thousand bullets a year each or more. Results- zip, zero, nada, no higher than the general population.

I earned my living splicing telephone cables in an era when lead sheathing was common. Cleaning lead for soldering, melting and pouring lead for end plates to accept large diameter lead sleeving for gas tight splice cases in an underground environment were daily tasks. The phone company tested us on a regular basis for high blood lead levels, few did, I never did. Of course we never ate the stuff and wore gloves for most of the operations.

Oddly the line crews were more susceptible to high blood levels from lead cable removals operations that could disturb the white lead oxidations that coated most lead cables, especially those in an aerial location.

 

[dave951]

I earned my living splicing telephone cables in an era when lead sheathing was common. Cleaning lead for soldering, melting and pouring lead for end plates to accept large diameter lead sleeving for gas tight splice cases in an underground environment were daily tasks. The phone company tested us on a regular basis for high blood lead levels, few did, I never did. Of course we never ate the stuff and wore gloves for most of the operations.

Oddly the line crews were more susceptible to high blood levels from lead cable removals operations that could disturb the white lead oxidations that coated most lead cables, especially those in an aerial location.

The people I know who have high lead levels are ones who shoot modern arms at indoor ranges. One of the main ingredients in a modern primer is lead styphnate and that stuff is all in the air and on every surface at an indoor range.

Getting high lead levels from casting fumes is a complete and TOTAL MYTH provided you take a few simple precautions. Don't eat, drink or smoke while casting. Wear gloves. Wash your hands thoroughly afterwards.

What fumes there are come from the flux oxidizing. Be smart, your lead pot isn't a hooka pipe.

 

[S.Kenton]

I’ve been casting for a few years now, I just have a Lee electric pot melter. I use a ladle and dip my lead to pour into my mold. I’ve noticed that at times the lead gets red hot, or at least has a red tint to it. I use crayons or beezwax for flux. I also make sure my mold stays good and warm and the inside of the mold is sooted. Other than that I’ve not had any issues other than a cold mold to cause my wrinkles.. or at least that’s when I get the wrinkles, I assume that’s what’s causing it. Is the bottom pour pot a better option? I’ve never used one before…

 

[Davey Boy]

Let me be on the side of caution for the younger people learning how to handle lead. Ignore the posts that say how safe it is to handle lead, Take every safety precaution you can to protect your body. Live a long healthy life while having as much fun as you can.

 

[Coolhand]

I believe the mountain men used an old German measurement of temp called GootNhot. When the lead melted in the ladle and the mold dropped a good looking ball it was GootNhot!

 

[JB Books]

I earned my living splicing telephone cables in an era when lead sheathing was common. Cleaning lead for soldering, melting and pouring lead for end plates to accept large diameter lead sleeving for gas tight splice cases in an underground environment were daily tasks. The phone company tested us on a regular basis for high blood lead levels, few did, I never did. Of course we never ate the stuff and wore gloves for most of the operations.

Oddly the line crews were more susceptible to high blood levels from lead cable removals operations that could disturb the white lead oxidations that coated most lead cables, especially those in an aerial location.

A freind of mine worked in a radiator shop from 78 to 86 his lead levels became chronically high. Had to quit and get a different type of work.

 

[waksupi]

I’ve been casting for a few years now, I just have a Lee electric pot melter. I use a ladle and dip my lead to pour into my mold. I’ve noticed that at times the lead gets red hot, or at least has a red tint to it. I use crayons or beezwax for flux. I also make sure my mold stays good and warm and the inside of the mold is sooted. Other than that I’ve not had any issues other than a cold mold to cause my wrinkles.. or at least that’s when I get the wrinkles, I assume that’s what’s causing it. Is the bottom pour pot a better option? I’ve never used one before…

The red you are seeing is simple oxidation of the lead. Your pot does not heat near hot enough to turn lead red.

 

[S.Kenton]

The red you are seeing is simple oxidation of the lead. Your pot does not heat near hot enough to turn lead red.

Well that makes sense… Thanks for clarifying that