Legal calibers for hunting big game with a muzzleloader in California

[Dale Allen Raby]

Um... unless you are hunting coyotes, bigger is always better, but .45 caliber is generally NOT thought of as a "larger bore", though you are grammatically correct in that it IS larger than .36 caliber. LD gave you good advice I think, especially if you choose to hunt with a patched round ball. I've never tried bismuth in a muzzleloader, but I would never consider steel shot for waterfowl. I'm not the best shot these days, so I'm gonna suggest even bigger, say .54 caliber. From what I have heard and seen personally, deer don't run too far shot with a .54 lead round ball and bismuth is pretty close in weight. Larger calibers generally shoot more accurately as well, though this depends somewhat on the shooter's resistance to recoil.

With a .50 or .54 round ball, 70 grains is probably enough, but some go to 90 grains or even higher. My advice is not to go higher than 70 grains, but I am a wimp, not even brave enough to visit the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Once planned to visit a friend out there, but Mae Ling was a smart girl and moved to another state some while back.

I wonder if anyone in Kalifornia has tried to use a patched steel ball bearing. I bet it would work at close range with a double-patched smoothbore. Wonder what accuracy would be like with that. Hmmmmm.... maybe I'll give it a shot. Now, if I could only find a .690 ball bearing.

 

[Nuthatch]

Um... unless you are hunting coyotes, bigger is always better, but .45 caliber is generally NOT thought of as a "larger bore", though you are grammatically correct in that it IS larger than .36 caliber. LD gave you good advice I think, especially if you choose to hunt with a patched round ball. I've never tried bismuth in a muzzleloader, but I would never consider steel shot for waterfowl. I'm not the best shot these days, so I'm gonna suggest even bigger, say .54 caliber. From what I have heard and seen personally, deer don't run too far shot with a .54 lead round ball and bismuth is pretty close in weight. Larger calibers generally shoot more accurately as well, though this depends somewhat on the shooter's resistance to recoil.

With a .50 or .54 round ball, 70 grains is probably enough, but some go to 90 grains or even higher. My advice is not to go higher than 70 grains, but I am a wimp, not even brave enough to visit the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Once planned to visit a friend out there, but Mae Ling was a smart girl and moved to another state some while back.

I wonder if anyone in Kalifornia has tried to use a patched steel ball bearing. I bet it would work at close range with a double-patched smoothbore. Wonder what accuracy would be like with that. Hmmmmm.... maybe I'll give it a shot. Now, if I could only find a .690 ball bearing.

There really isn't any NEED to go up to 90 grains when using hard ball, like Bi or ITX. There won't be any expansion like you get with pure lead at those speeds. Without expansion, it's all penetration and there's plenty of it for anything you'll find in CA. I use 70 grains in my .50s when shooting PRB.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

There really isn't any NEED to go up to 90 grains when using hard ball, like Bi or ITX. There won't be any expansion like you get with pure lead at those speeds. Without expansion, it's all penetration and there's plenty of it for anything you'll find in CA. I use 70 grains in my .50s when shooting PRB.

I normally shoot 50 grains with PRB in most of my .45 - .54 caliber guns. 70 grains with Conicals or unmentionables. Generally don't go to 90 grains.

 

[Nuthatch]

Well being in KALIFOƦИIA, as the lads have written, you will need something non-lead.
Rotometals makes a lead free, bismuth based, bullet casting alloy. I'd suggest that you try this stuff. Bullet Casting Alloy . IF you go with a .50 caliber, you will get enough mass to do the job, since it's not all lead, and nearly 38 balls to the pound of alloy or so, making the cost per ball around 50 cents. You will need to experiment with patching, as the ball will likely be a few thousandths of an inch larger than .490 when cast from a .490 round ball mold for pure-lead.

LD

In fact, 0.002 is exactly how much larger Bi alloy casts over lead for me. It's not really enough to matter but I cast .480s. Same patch with lead & Bi. Casts at about 143 grains vs lead 165 grains. Same POI out to 100 yards.

My .600s also cast to .602. Haven't shot at anything with those yet.

ITX from Ballistic Products is the off-the-shelf option for lead-free roundball. I've needed a thinner patch with the .487 ball vs .490 Hornady.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In fact, 0.002 is exactly how much larger Bi alloy casts over lead for me. It's not really enough to matter but I cast .480s. Same patch with lead & Bi. Casts at about 143 grains vs lead 165 grains. Same POI out to 100 yards.

That's good first-hand information, thanks

LD

 

[user 53891]

Sarcasm aside, .40 minimum to be legal. And since it has to be non-lead ammo, I'd say .45 should be a real-world minimum. You won't get a shred of expansion if you're shooting a patched ball. I don't know how a conical would fare in a slow-twist rifle like a Kibler.

Before you get too far into the Kibler project, know the area you're looking to hunt. Some areas are fine with 5-foot rifles. Others, you're just going to be hung up on brush all day. If you're in the Sierras, those deer are bigger than coastal deer. Best to up-size there. I took a mature 4x4 that was about 130 lb on the coast one year. But I've had 1x2 and 2x2 bucks easily in the 160-180 lb range on the Western Sierras.

I was looking hard at the Kibler Colonial but dropped it once I saw the weight. For all the hiking around I do getting in/out & still-hunting, I'll take my 7-lb guns any day over something in the 8-10 lb range.

Finally, unless you're on a draw tag, you're going to be hunting the general season only -- no ML seasons here. That puts you squarely in the prime fire season for most areas. So figure out your patch lube to make sure you're not sending a smoldering patch into the woods. Personally, I use heavy denim soaked in beeswax/bear grease lube & feel comfortable hunting with that most of the time. But I balk during the driest parts of the year. Experiment & find out what works.

Are you sure you won't get a shred of expansion from a PRB?

 

[Nuthatch]

Are you sure you won't get a shred of expansion from a PRB?

With Bismuth or ITX ball, yes. I'm sure. They're both harder than hardcast lead. Can't use lead here when in the field. Bi might shatter but won't expand, even if it hits something hard. ITX might get scratched a little. I'm pretty sure that if I smacked an ITX ball on my anvil, it would dent my anvil.

For what it's worth, I shot a soft lead roundball from my Hawken into jugs & didn't get any expansion either. Load was 70 grains Pyrodex RS clocked in at about 1600 fps. Jugs were at 50 yards. Maybe at 1900 fps and at 25 yards we would have gotten something. But as it was, all we got was a little dent where either it hit the jug or from obturation. Diameter was still 0.490".

 

[user 53891]

With Bismuth or ITX ball, yes. I'm sure. They're both harder than hardcast lead. Can't use lead here when in the field. Bi might shatter but won't expand, even if it hits something hard. ITX might get scratched a little. I'm pretty sure that if I smacked an ITX ball on my anvil, it would dent my anvil.

For what it's worth, I shot a soft lead roundball from my Hawken into jugs & didn't get any expansion either. Load was 70 grains Pyrodex RS clocked in at about 1600 fps. Jugs were at 50 yards. Maybe at 1900 fps and at 25 yards we would have gotten something. But as it was, all we got was a little dent where either it hit the jug or from obturation. Diameter was still 0.490".

Just saying that every deer, elk, or bear that we have taken, that lead ball never retained it's round shape. Of course that is with .50 & .54 cal. With bismutm and ITX never dealt with that. Although Komierado is getting just like Komiefornia and I imagine we'll see that crap soon.

 

[Nuthatch]

Just saying that every deer, elk, or bear that we have taken, that lead ball never retained it's round shape. Of course that is with .50 & .54 cal. With bismutm and ITX never dealt with that. Although Komierado is getting just like Komiefornia and I imagine we'll see that crap soon.

Yea, you're right there. Jug tests aren't real flesh & bone. I was surprised that it didn't expand though. I've seen pictures of the quarter-sized soft lead balls recovered from animals.

The Bi ball that I took out of the thigh of my deer this year (frontal shot) was scratched up & gouged a little but didn't flatten or break. Didn't matter to the deer -- his lights went out instantly.

I've been hesitant to use ITX. Everywhere I hunt is rocky. I'm pretty sure Bi would shatter if it hit a rock since I've found a few that broke up when shooting in sandy soil. But I fear ITX could have some bad ricochets if it passed through & hit a rock. It would probably just end up in a tree but it still makes me nervous to not know where that ball could go next.