length of pull

[flintlock54]

I am having a custom 16 gauge Engish Fowler made. The distance from the crease at my elbow to my trigger finger pad is 13 3/4. Are there any other factors that I should consider when determining the LOP?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes: The size and shape of your chest will control both pitch, and LOP. Shotguns are mounded on your shoulder in the pocket, and not out on the arm. How long or tall your neck is affects both drop at comb, and drop at heel, and will also affect LOP. The width of your face should be taken into consideration in deciding if you are going to have cast off put into the stock. A good stock maker will take those measurments, and ask you questions.

The best suggestion I can make to you is to try a lot of shotguns and find one that comes to your shoulder and eye easily, and then take those measurements. I found that most BP shotguns have much greater Drop at heel and drop at comb, than modern shotguns do. You can use a much shorter LOP when a stock has more drop. If the stock compensates for your barrel chest properly, the stock also does not have to be as long as modern straigher shotgun stocks tend to be. The reason is that you can mount the shotgun to your face and shoulder and be looking right down the barrel, instead of having to lean forward to compensate for less down pitch on your barrel chest, making your head " crawl the stock" by moving more forward. Its that stock crawling that is compensated for by making the LOP longer on modern guns. The other problem with longer, straight stocks( less drop at both comb and heel) is that it make them more difficult to get your face down on the stock so that you are looking at the front sight in a line with your eye that goes right down the barrel at the same level the entire length of the barrel. Older guns, with more drop in the stock, allow you to look down the barrel comfortably even if you have a full face, with your head and neck held straight up. That relieves stress on those muscles, and cramping, and allows your eyes to look through the center of your orbit, rather than out one corner or another, putting strain on some of the eye's muscles, too.

Find a stock maker who will look down the stock and barrel of an empty gun, of course, to see how the stock alignes with your face, and eye. I sent a woman who was very petite to a stocker who was experienced in fitting stocks, to shorten, and change the pitch of her gun. When she got the gun back, it natually points to her target, and she now rarely misses a bird. It has a new, thicker recoil pad for her, but the LOP is about 12 inches, and he added more down pitch, as most women also have barrel chests, as in how their ribcage is designed to support their breasts. For men who are tall and very skinny, and thin in build, down pitch can be fairly short, or straight. They don't need much, and usually find that factory stocks fit them well.

I hope that helps.

 

[flintlock54]

Thank you for the answer of a life time.

 

[Rebel]

Maybe 2 lifetimes. :rotf:

 

[J.D.]

A coupla things in addition to Paul's comments;
It's easier to adjust to a shorter LOP than a longer one, so many stockers will recommend a slightly shorter LOP to compensate for shooting while wearing several layers of clothing.

If you have ever tried to mount any type of gun quickly and had the heel of the butt catch in your clothing, either the LOP is too long, or you're wearing too many clothes. :winking:
J.D.

 

[MSW]

Paul- that't one of the most concise descriptions of how the goemetry of a stock is supposed to work. Well done, my man. By way of "duh" questions, should you mess with castoff in a fowler, or is just making everything way too complicated for its own good?

Thanks for your input.

msw

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, I think you should " mess with cast off " on a fowler. Cast off is called for when you have a wide, or ' full " face ( in my case that reads " fat "). It is also called for if you have particularly wide shoulders( I do.) Any shotgun can be made to handle much better if some consideration is used in thinking about cast off. I had 1/4 inch of cast-on put on my Remington 870 pump shotgun, to match the cast-on that I had on a Winchester Model 101 O/U shotgun. That second gun was purchased used from a friend, who was the original buyer, but who had traded it back and forth several times with another friend, before I came along. He bought the gun originally from Winchester, during the first year of production, and it had a low serial number, and a gorgeous piece of wood that would not have been put on that model gun without paying a lot of extra money later on. But, when I saw it in his gun rack, I observed the cast-on, and asked him if he knew he had a shotgun designed for a LH shooter? Even he was surprised. He had put at least 100,000 rounds through the gun, and his other buddy had probably shot an equal amount of ammo through the gun. It was still as tight as the first day he owned it, but had a vew minor repairs needed to be done. When I took it to the gunsmith/stockfitter, to fix a bent extractor, and seal the beginning of a crack in the wrist of the stock, he checked the cast-on, and found it was 1/4 inch. He had me mount the gun to my shoulder and looked down the barrel at my eye position and found that the cast-on just happened to help position my eye accurately. So, I had him bend and reshape the buttstock on my Remington 870 to put the same amount of cast0 on with that stock. Voila! My shooting improved a couple of more targets at competitive Trap!

Since the eye is the rear sight on a fowler, even those, like mine, that have an actual rear sight on the barrel, it helps most shooters to have cast off, or cast-on, put on the gunstocks when they are made. No self-respecting English Stockmaker would think of making a gun without it.

If you do have cast-off put on the stock, remember to consider what that does to the angle of the buttplate to your shoulder. You may have to change the angle of the buttplate a degree or two on the sides, so that the gun still recoils directly back into your shoulder, and is not trying to recoil away and off your shoulder. It takes only a few minutes with a good file to make that adjustment before mounting the buttplate.

 

[Roy]

I do not put any faith into that way of measurement, from elbow to trigger finger pad. I'm 5'11" average build. I shoot guns with anywhere from a 13" to 13 1/2" pull comfortably, any longer and the gun when comes up and will be in my armpit. It has alot on how a persons shooting style is too. btw With measuring from my elbow to trigger finger pad is 15 1/2" :youcrazy: Atleast this explains my longer draw for a bow. :haha:

 

[clayman49]

Hi there, the measurement you have taken, from the elbow to the trigger finger is what is deemed by many shooters to be the correct L O P. But I feel that is old fashioned and there for out of date. I have no formula, but bear this in mind; when shooting the butt must be cupped in the shoulder, i.e. the forearm far enough forward so the stock does not slip out of the shoulder when fireing, plus the arm+elbow should be parallel with the ground (this helps to cup the butt and stops canting of the firearm). How do I know this, trail and error, but it has helped me to humerous gold medals in NZ, Australia and the Pacific Zone in ML clay target shooting. As a point of interest, my forearm measurement is 12&1/4inches and my shotguns all have a L O P of 14&1/2inches. Just find what works for you, happy shooting.

 

[Rebel]

I sure like them Funny(humerous) Gold medals. Ain't they cute? :rotf: Just kidding ya. Congrats
And i measure 14 3/4" from elbow joint to finger tip, but i like a 13"-13 1/4" LOP.