Less is More

[MIOutdoorsman]

I know that this topic has been addressed before, but I thought it worth repeating for any who haven't tried it systematically, or haven't truly embraced the idea yet...

Yesterday I took my flintlock pistol kit build (Pendersoli Kentucky) to the range to put some more lead through the barrel, try out a different size flint, and introduce my daughter's boyfriend to flintlocks. It was a rare opportunity for me to sit back and WATCH the ignition of this pistol, as I was watching another guy pull the trigger 50% of the time.

It was a fantastic session on the range. I got to try out my new loading stand (worked great), a new flint size (also worked great), and solidify the load that I had been honing in on for this particular flintlock (she like a .530 RB, .015 patch, and 35grains of FFF). What I hadn't expected to test out was focusing more on how much powder to drop in the pan. I have tended to be a bit sloppy with this, often filling up the pan to "about full," which is often beyond the top of the flash hole in the vent liner. I read on a few occasions of faster ignition when the pan is only about "sunset" full, with the powder filled to about half-way across the pinhole, but I hadn't yet been paying that close of attention to this detail. I will admit that for whatever stubborn reason, I had convinced myself that a lot of burning powder there must equate to a faster ignition, so I had always just poured powder in the pan until I was about level with the top of the pan and closed the frizzen.

Yesterday's range session provided ample time to fool around a little more with this, and while I can't provide a quantitative measure of ignition speed, it became abundantly clear to both of us that we achieved our most exceptionally fast ignition by using less powder in the pan. In fact, I think our best results were when we used just enough powder to barely get to the level of the pin hole. If you can imaging looking at the sun setting over the ocean, when the sun just barely "touches" the water, that's what it looked like with our fastest ignitions, where the touchhole is like sun, setting over the powder in the pan.

So if you're like me, and you haven't really focused on this yet, do yourself a favor and bring another guy to the range next time, set him up so that you can watch the ignition, and play around with how much powder you use in the pan. I'm guessing that it'll make a believer out of you too.. I can't exactly explain WHY this is the case, but I can say that less powder in my pan provided much faster ignition.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The why that it works better is the flash of heat goes threw the hole very fast but if there’s powder in the way it has to burn it’s way in.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Ahh. Heat. Thank you Phil. That makes sense.

 

[YJake]

Using the same pistol, I charge and prime with FFg. Using that powder in the pan it usually covers the touch hole and I’ve been priming to where the very small pan is full. With how large the grains are it’s difficult not to. I haven't had issues with ignition or hang fires thus far.

I may try FFFg or FFFFg half full in the pan and see how it ignites, thanks.

-Jake

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Jake--
I keep mentally "threatening" to use the same powder that goes down the pipe in the pan, but I haven't tried that yet. I use FF in my rifle barrel, FFF in the pistol barrel, but I use FFFF in the pan for both. My rifle is a Lyman GPR, so an "out of the box" build of mediocre quality. That lock tends to leak the FFFF powder out of it pretty easily, which is a point of frustration with me. There is no way that I could walk/stalk game with that rifle and be confident of getting off a shot.

Someone on this forum recommended that I try FF in the pan instead of FFFF, hoping that the larger grains wouldn't find their way out of the closed pan. That alone, even if a slightly slower ignition, would be reason enough for me to try it.

 

[Eterry]

My first flintlock was about 35 years ago and I was a young man. No one shot them, i filled the pan full, thinking more powder, more boom.

It had a loooong hang fire and i hated it so much i sold it.

I've learned to use a line of powder in the pan and ignition is much faster. I use fffg for main charge and prime, works great, less filling!

 

[Britsmoothy]

I was filling the pan on bessy a couple of weekends back and it was taking like forever to go off.

 

[mushka]

I only have two flintlocks, both .62-20's. When I first started trying to shoot them I'd fill the priming pan, but always got delayed ignitions. After reading this board for awhile I started filling the priming pan only about a third full or less and the ignition improved dramatically. I use 3f in both guns, and prime with 3f also. I do believe less is better.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My Bess (Loyalist Arms) doesn't seem to care what is in the pan. If the lock sparks, the pan ignites and sets off the charge. I use the same powder in the pan as I have in my wrapped cartridges.

My other locks have been getting 4f in the pan and having the priming spread out along the pan makes for faster ignition. I also pick the touch hole to be sure the path is clear. Seems to work in my Derringer (L&R lock). Sequential frames from a video.

 

[Eterry]

That's some nice pics... I'm not talking about it going boom, it did that with a full pan. But i swear I could hear it sizzle before going off.

I understand a bess has a huge lock, the M-1 Abrams of locks, and was made for reliability, not speed. They weren't made for bench rest shooting.

My point is, like you, when I reduce my powder in the pan of my Chambers large Siler it doesn't have as long of a Ka-boom. It's really more like one sound.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

You said it with the "click-bang" versus just "bang!" That's what I'm talkin' about. I took a video with my iPhone and keep watching it over and over in near disbelief at how fast the ignition is now.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Where I was sitting when I shot my Derringer rifle, it was just a boom. Amazing how these videos show the delays that one doesn't notice.

I'm not going to post the link to the Gemmer Page. Face Book takes you to some other non related videos.

 

[YJake]

Jake--
I keep mentally "threatening" to use the same powder that goes down the pipe in the pan, but I haven't tried that yet. I use FF in my rifle barrel, FFF in the pistol barrel, but I use FFFF in the pan for both. My rifle is a Lyman GPR, so an "out of the box" build of mediocre quality. That lock tends to leak the FFFF powder out of it pretty easily, which is a point of frustration with me. There is no way that I could walk/stalk game with that rifle and be confident of getting off a shot.

Someone on this forum recommended that I try FF in the pan instead of FFFF, hoping that the larger grains wouldn't find their way out of the closed pan. That alone, even if a slightly slower ignition, would be reason enough for me to try it.

At the range I usually prime with FFg, but I use FFFFg in the field.

I tried FFFg in my .54 Kentucky but it gave noticeably worse performance compared to FFg as a main charge that I never bothered with FFFg in my .54 rifle. I’m not sure how or why, but FFFg was providing about 50fps less velocity compared to the FFg for the same volume charge.

I only use FFFg in my cap and ball revolver now.

-Jake

 

[Archer 756]

Rule is general to fill pan just below flash hoe with priming powder

 

[hanshi]

Whenever I prime I mostly use a brass charger which throws about 3 grains - about 1/3 pan full on a large Siler - and get fast ignition. In the woods if I'm priming from any kind of "horn" and want to reload I just dump in a bit of prime. If it's too much I quickly brush some off. It it's a big lock (large round-face locks) I use 2 or 3 charger pushes or just dump in what looks to be enough, if using a horn.

 

[TFoley]

I can't help myself sometimes - this is my Parker-Hale Whitworth a'boomin' a few years back...............sequential frames from video at 1/25th second intervals..........

And with a noob shooting my P-H Musketoon off a rest - notice that you can still see a flash at the nipple when the main charge has gone off - that !

 

[user 34300]

I use about half a pea volume, or say the volume of a 6mm plastic BB, of 4f. I then close the frizzen and rock the gun side to side. That coats the pan with a thin layer of powder. Coating the pan give a greater chance of a spark hitting powder. IT also does not cover the flash hole. Little powder burns faster resulting in faster ignition.

I used to think flintlocks had a huge lock time. Klack, foof, bang. That was when I shot a TC. The lock was very poorly designed. I also filled the pan. With good locks and vent liners I do not notice lock time anymore.

 

[toot]

My Bess (Loyalist Arms) doesn't seem to care what is in the pan. If the lock sparks, the pan ignites and sets off the charge. I use the same powder in the pan as I have in my wrapped cartridges.

My other locks have been getting 4f in the pan and having the priming spread out along the pan makes for faster ignition. I also pick the touch hole to be sure the path is clear. Seems to work in my Derringer (L&R lock). Sequential frames from a video.

View attachment 51575View attachment 51576View attachment 51577

thank's for posting.

 

[FishDFly]

"I then close the frizzen and rock the gun side to side. That coats the pan with a thin layer of powder. Coating the pan give a greater chance of a spark hitting powder. IT also does not cover the flash hole. Little powder burns faster resulting in faster ignition."

That really makes sense.

Thanks will start doing that.

 

[Rodd Boyer]

Jake--
I keep mentally "threatening" to use the same powder that goes down the pipe in the pan, but I haven't tried that yet. I use FF in my rifle barrel, FFF in the pistol barrel, but I use FFFF in the pan for both. My rifle is a Lyman GPR, so an "out of the box" build of mediocre quality. That lock tends to leak the FFFF powder out of it pretty easily, which is a point of frustration with me. There is no way that I could walk/stalk game with that rifle and be confident of getting off a shot.

Someone on this forum recommended that I try FF in the pan instead of FFFF, hoping that the larger grains wouldn't find their way out of the closed pan. That alone, even if a slightly slower ignition, would be reason enough for me to try it.

I use fffg in the pan and as the main charge in my GPRs and all other flintlocks from .36-.54 cal. No issues and pretty quick ignition on all.