Lessons Learned In New Pistol Buying

[FishDFly]

Last week I received a Kentucky flint lock pistol which I ordered. It arrives with “NO” flint, we have been through this last week, ask what you shall receive when ordering.

This week, the Uberti Remington 1858 New Army arrives which I ordered. I read all the instructions and proceed through them. I get top the point of, remove the cylinder to properly clean the pistol. I was wondering after removing the cylinder, will it go back in?

The above was a very wrong assumption on my part; the cylinder will not go back into the pistol frame. After repeated attempts to put the cylinder into the frame, no luck.

Okay, I give up and ask the other half to put the gun together. No luck for her either.

I called the vendor and he acted like I was a moron, you can’t put a cylinder back into the pistol? My sense of humor is now gone.

About 15 minutes later the phone rings, it’s the vendor and tells me how to put the cylinder into the pistol. Okay, we talk for 10 minutes and the cylinder will not go into the pistol, this is while he is telling me how he put the same kind of pistol together three (3) times while he is talking to me. I will give him credit for calling to check to on how things are going and he said he will not leave me out to dry.
AAAAARRHHHH.

Off to my friendly gun smith with the pistol the next morning. He is unable to put the cylinder into the pistol off a wager to the coffee fund. From the back of the store arrive 2 more gunsmiths to haggle the boss for his lack of knowledge of guns.

Huh, the other 2 gunsmiths cannot get the cylinder into the pistol after repeated attempts.

The only way anyone could get the cylinder into the pistol was to push in on the pall with a pocket knife.

They miked the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone and the gap has a .001 clearance and there is no way for the cylinder to go into the pistol, a physical impossibility. They said that normally the pistols have around .003 clearance. Thus there is a problem with the pistol.

I called the people who handle the repairs for Uberti and was treated nicely.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, the vendor said he would take care of me and Uberti will fix things. What irritates me is having to pay extra postage to have a new pistol repaired after having paid to have it shipped originally.

When ordering anything, ask the seller/vendor to do a functional/operability test of the fire arm before shipping it. If the seller/endor will not do so, I will no will not buy from them and pay additional postage to have it repaired.

RDE

 

[mazo kid]

Hi, sorry to here of your problems. Did you operate the revolver before taking the cylinder out, that is, cock the hammer and release it by pulling the trigger? If so and it operated OK, I see no reason for the cylinder NOT to go back in. After all, the cylinder WAS in place when you received the revolver. Did you have the revolver at half cock when trying to put the cylinder back in? That retracts the hand so you don't have to manually retract it. Granted, some cylinders are a bit finicky about that, but they do go back together.

 

[FishDFly]

mazo kid,

Yes, the pistol did and will work with the cylinder in, cylinder rotation is not the problem with the pistol. By your definition, the pistol worked OK, by mine, if you cannot put the cylinder into a pistol, it does not work OK.

The reason the cylinder would not go in, there was not SUFFICIENT clearance for it to fit into the gun.. There is .001 clearance between the front of the cylinder and the forcing cone. (You can not see daylight between the front of the cylinder and forcing cone when the cylinder is in the pistol.)

With a clearance of .001 there is not enough room to get the cylinder into the frame with the pall sticking out the small amount it is designed to be at half cock.

When I spoke with the gunsmith at the Uberti repair center, he said would have to shave the front of the cylinder down for it to go in and he had all the tools to repair the pistol He said he has seen this problem previously and it was not new to him.

I and three (3) gunsmiths had the hammer at half cock and the cylinder would only go into the frame by using a pocket knife to push the pall in to gain sufficient clearance to get the hammer in. Wonder if this is how the gun assembler at Uberti put the pistol together? Inquiring minds would like to know how the gun made it through inspection.

My gunsmith and the Uberti gunsmith said if I did shoot the pistol by pushing in the pall to get the cylinder in with a pocket knife, I would be lucky for it to shoot 5 times or so before it locked up due lack of CLEARANCE and fouling caused by the black powder residue.

Oh, by the way, one of the gunsmiths is one of 3 in the country who can fabricate old Colt pistol parts from scratch. He just may have somewhat of an idea of how to put a cylinder into a pistol.

I made my initial post for readers to learn to ask for a functional/operational test of a gun before it is sent to the purchaser. If the vendor had done so, I would not be spending wasted money on postage. I would be shooting.

The pistol is not my first pistol, nor putting a cylinder in a pistol is my FIRST rodeo.

RDE

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: That;s truly a sorry problem you had with a totally wonderful gun. I have two which I used for CAS and though they are not too easy to reassemble after cleaning, I always thought it was just getting used to the feeling as opposed to a Colt. The gun is as accurate as one could ask for and the triggers are almost as good as some of my target pistols (Pardinis). You have my sympathies and I hope the gun will be fixed by the manufacturer quickly. :v

 

[mykeal]

Richard -

I'm having a little trouble with the description - what is the part you refer to as a 'pawl'? Is it the hand that protrudes from the recoil shield and rotates the cylinder by pushing against the ratchets on the back, or the bolt that fits into the cylinder stop notches on the circumference?

I don't mean to imply that 'pawl' is an incorrect term - I'm just not familiar with it, so it's my ignorance that needs fixing.

 

[FishDFly]

mykeal,

You have described the part, as you described, it protrudes from the recoil shield and rotates the cylinder by pushing against the ratchets on the back of the cylinder. You have spelled the part correctly, I butchered the spelling of it.

It was interesting talking with the gunsmith at Uberti about the pistol. He told me that the newer Remington 1858 pawl springs are too stiff, which he thought was the initial problem, the pawl sticking out too far. He said to push in on the pawl with a screw driver to weaken the spring. After more discussion, he said that he was aware what my problem was and to send it to him. He mentioned a couple of other things he would do to the pistol while he had it.

I could not ask for better service from Uberti. The gunmsith said he would work on the gun on arrival and ship it the next morning. I cannot complain about that service.

RDE

 

[FishDFly]

Pasquenel,

After talking with the Uberti gunsmith, I have total faith it will come back better than when it left the factory.

The gunsmith is going to fix the problem and a couple of adjustments he said need to be done to the pistol. I bought it to shoot in "as issue" matches, he said he can do what needs to be done.

Uberti service and the vendor have been nice to me and I have no complaints.

It is some what of pain when you live in place where everything has to come UPS or USPS and cannot go to fondle a gun to see if it functions as it should. But then again, UPS and USPS are cheaper than a major road trip, price of gas, sigh.

RDE

 

[mazo kid]

Pasquenel,

After talking with the Uberti gunsmith, I have total faith it will come back better than when it left the factory.

The gunsmith is going to fix the problem and a couple of adjustments he said need to be done to the pistol. I bought it to shoot in "as issue" matches, he said he can do what needs to be done.

Uberti service and the vendor have been nice to me and I have no complaints.

It is some what of pain when you live in place where everything has to come UPS or USPS and cannot go to fondle a gun to see if it functions as it should. But then again, UPS and USPS are cheaper than a major road trip, price of gas, sigh.

RDE

Richard, I did not mean to imply that you didn't know how to reassemble the gun, just trying to determine what the problem was. I'm glad that the repair will be done; it shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. I'm surprised that the gun made it through final inspection. On some of my guns, I have to rotate the cylinder to push the hand back and allow the cylinder to slip in; kind of a rotate-slide in thing. .

 

[FishDFly]

mazo kid,

No problem, I just was wanting to let others know what problems I have had lately buying guns that a person can not fondle. (Wife likes that word)

With the increased price of fuel, more people will be ordering things versus driving to get stuff.

If what happened on the pistol is the worst thing that happens to me, will not be that bad of a week.

Take care

RDE

 

[Sham66]

Howdy!

I'm with you on the flint deal. Just got a flintlock pistol sent to me and there is a note inside that reads: "The frizzen is marked because we tested for sparks". Couldn't they have left the flint in the pistol?!

James

 

[Zonie]

Richard: For the record, a .001 clearance fits nicely into a class RC1, Running/Sliding fit for the length of your guns cylinder.
It is a precision fit that may be too close for a black powder firearm but it is possible to assemble parts that size with that clearance.
Actually, a RC1 fit for parts in that size have a clearance of .0004- .0012.

I'm sure that you and your gun smiths all know, but I will just mention here that if a person has a Remington, Whitney, Spiller & Burr or Rogers & Spencer pistol or one of their reproductions, the cylinder can not drop straight into place.
On all of these guns, the hand will be protruding from the rear of the frame and will prevent the cylinder from being directly inserted.

All of these guns require that the cylinder be rotated clockwise (with the gun pointed away from you). This rotation will push the hand back into the frame and allow the cylinder to be positioned such that the cylinder pin can then be pushed into place.

 

[FishDFly]

Zonie,

Thanks for the tip, I will try it.

RDE

 

[JackAubrey]

I was just about to mention what Zonie told you.It has to be roted back into position.Best of luck.J.A.