light loads?

[hawk]

whats the lightest load (bird shot) you've used in you smoothbore ?

 

[Russianblood]

50gr 2f and 60gr volume of shot in my 28 bore canoe gun.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Check the Dixie Gun Works on line catalog, in the back for recommended loads. one dram = 27.5 grains, so 2 drams is 55 grains. There are not many recommended loads for shotgun that go much below 2 drams of powder, even in the smaller gauges. Try using equivalent volumes of powder and shot with these small gauges, and then tweak the load for pattern performance by changing first the powder, up and down a quarter and then a half of a dram, and then increase or lower the volume of shot by 1/8 oz. increments. Some people find using 1.5 times the amount of powder by volume for their shot charge, so that the powder to shot ratio is 1:1.5 produces good patterns, but this does not seem to work in all guns, or in all gauges. The more shot you put down the barrel for a given powder charge, the slower the velocity of the load tends to be.

 

[hawk]

I was wondering how little shot could be used ?
How much shot would be required to make close shots on birds like grouse .
Someone with a surplus musket hunting up some meat for dinner back in the day where every shot counts .
I've heard stories of hunters waiting for to birds to get close together so they could harvest two birds with one shot.I gather they were trying to conserve their bird shot and powder.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

The more shot you put down the barrel for a given powder charge, the slower the velocity of the load tends to be.

True, but too much powder can blow the pattern, if the shot is not getting on target, velocity counts for little.

I mostly abide by the old English ML adage, "much shot, little powder, shoot far."

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have seen loads for as little as 1/2 oz.but I think that is pushing it. stick with 3/4 oz. as the low end. There is no sense in crippling birds and causing them needless suffering just because you are trying to use the thinnest patterns. Take a look at Bob Spenser's " Black Powder Notebook" , at; [url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html.[/url] V>M. Starr has a good article on shotgun loads, and suggests some for the small gauges.

You should also note that part of the goal of putting a pattern of shot on target is to get all the shot on target at the same time, as if it were a 20 or 30 inch flat disc flying through the air, instead of an elongated oval. One way to shorten the shot " string" is to put a small load of shot in a large diameter bore gun. So, shooting a 28 ga. load in a 20 or 12 or 10 ga shotgun will shoot much better patterns, and shorter strings than if its fired in a 28 ga. gun. So, instead of buying a small ga. shotgun for these short shooting situations, you can use your standard 12 ga. and just load it " down " with the lighter loads to make those close shots. Because fewer shot pellets in the load will be rubbing against the barrel, you get better cores in the patterns when loaded in the larger gauge shotguns.

 

[Tinker2]

What gage gun are you asking about?
That would make a difference as to my answer.


Tinker2

 

[CoyoteJoe]

At one time, I was living in the woods and doing some "subsistence hunting" with a 12 gauge percussion side by side. I realized that even my standard load of 2 3/4 drams with one ounce of shot was overkill for the small birds and pine squirrels I was bagging.
I cut that load in half, 1/2 ounce #8 shot and 37 1/2 grains 3f. I'd carry a full load in the right barrel and the half load in the left, full choke barrel. It gave round and uniform patterns on paper and would drop a pine squirrel from the tree tops.
That's the beauty of black powder, you could never do anything like that with smokeless. Even with laboratory testing facilities I doubt one could ever build a smokeless load to fire 1/2 ounce from a 12 gauge, it could not build enough pressure to burn consistently. Most smokeless loads require at least 5,000 psi and you'll actually find very few listed loads of less than 8,000 psi. I doubt that my half load with black powder produced even 1,000 psi but black is fine with that. :grin:

 

[hawk]

Tinker2,
I have a .75cal bess,12bore fowler,16ga oficers fusil, 20ga tradegun and .50cal smoothrifle.I'm workin' on a 28 but it won't be ready for this season.

 

[Evan Ebersole]

A freind of mine grabbed the wrong shooting bag one time and used 35grs.of powder and the same of shot I a .62 cal smoothbore and hit 4 out of 5 clay brids.

 

[Tinker2]

hawk 2

Nice assortment.

I never have shot any shot in my Bess. my 12 ga guns
were only used for Canadian geese and loaded at max.

I still have two 20 gages. I shoot 55 gr. and equal volume
of shot in it as my main/max. load. in my 58 smooth bore
hand gun I use 30 to 35 gr. with equal volume of shot.
I use to shoot a 28 ga at our muzzle loading trap shoots.
That load was 5/8 ounce of shot and 35 gr of powder.
These loads work well for me in mine.

I don’t have a smooth .50 caliber but I would think it would
be about like a 32 ga. TOP load 1/2 to 5/8 ounces of shot.

I have been thinking about getting another garden gun type
of smooth bore in .35 to .45 caliber for hunting bunnies,
birds and the like. the ones I had I shot 15 to 20 gr. with
equal or more shot by volume. great little guns out to maybe
20 yards.

Have fun, be safe, tell us what you find that works for you.

Tinker2

 

[Java Man]

This is a very interesting thread. I tried patterning my 20ga Fusil last weekend. 70gr FFg, over powder card, 1/2 pre lubed cushion wad, 1 1/4oz #5, over shot card. At 25yds the pattern was decent. I sure like the idea of trying maybe 50gr ffg and 60gr #5's. Should work for tree rats and pheasants. Hope to try it ot tomorrow.

I looked up VM Starr's recommendations. For a 20ga, he recommends no more than about 7/8oz of shot, and around 2 1/4 (62gr) drams of either 1f or 2f.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

That 1 1/4 oz of #5 shot load you tried is really a 12 ga. load. You might want to back it down to what V>M. Starr said, and see how good a pattern you get.

Speed does not contribute to good patterns in an open cylinder, or cylinder bore gun. Birds are killed by the amount of energy delivered by more than one pellet to them when they are shot out of the air. The tighter the pattern, the greater the likelihood that you will hit the bird with multiple pellets. Like Round Ball, shotgun pellet are slowed dramatically in the air, and it is the size of the shot, PLUS the corresponding weight that delivers energy down range. If you check the tables in the Lyman Reloading manual for shotguns, you will see that regardless of how fast the shot leaves the muzzle, all the velocity is pretty will lost in the first 20 yds. By the time you get to 40 yds, the remaining velocity difference between a " hot " load, and a " mild " or " slow " load, are insignificant, and are within the variations you can get from shot to shot. Velocity creates unwanted recoil- no test of manhood, really- and blows the patterns, making misses much more likely. The loads V.M. Starr recommends are almost all below the speed of sound( 1100fps) which is pretty slow by modern ammo standards. But, they kill birds.

 

[Java Man]

Paul,

My pattern was good enough, but there certainly was plenty of recoil. I kept thinking that more shot must be better, and read of some pretty stout loads on this forum. I like your approach with the facts about down range pellet energy. Its hard to understand in our "magnum" society. I get magnumits too. :shake:

I'd rather have an even 1 1/2' pattern than an uneven 3' pattern. My load stated above was not even, but a tree rat or pheasant would have a hard time getting through that pattern.

 

[Tinker2]

V.M. Starr was the reason I moved to the Dakotas


Tinker2