lighten my trigger

[shortbow]

Hey, my newest gun has an L&R Queen Anne lock. Trigger pull just plain sucks.

I'm no gunsmith, so am wondering if I should try lightening thinks up by stoning the seer myself?

Is the steel on this part through-hardened? I ask because I've ruined more than one trigger by over 'filing' the seer on older guns which were only case hardened. Is there another, better way?

Thanks.

 

[Roy]

good pictures would really help :thumbsup: .. could be where the trigger is pinned rather than the lock... then again could be the lock :haha: :idunno:

 

[Vaino]

Chances are that the lock is OK...most hard trigger pulls are caused by too big a dim from the trigger pivot to the lock sear bar or incorrect geometry between the trigger bar and sear bar or wood interference in the trigger inlet. First check the dim from the trigger pivot to the sear bar and if it's aprrox. 5/16"-3/8", that's good, then apply spotting compound on the entire trigger assembly, install and pull the trigger repeatedly. Remove the trigger ass'y and look for areas where the spotting compound is in the inlet. Remove these areas until nothing touches. Rarely is it the lock but sometimes the sear screw is too tight or the plate has gouges that need to be smoothed indicating interference. Stoning the sear most times doesn't lighten the trigger pull much and there's a good chance of "screwing it up". Hopefully, it's a single trigger? Good luck....Fred

 

[matt denison]

Hey, my newest gun has an L&R Queen Anne lock. Trigger pull just plain sucks.

I'm no gunsmith, so am wondering if I should try lightening thinks up by stoning the seer myself?

Is the steel on this part through-hardened? I ask because I've ruined more than one trigger by over 'filing' the seer on older guns which were only case hardened. Is there another, better way?

Thanks.

L&R uses 6150 steel for the sear and tumbler. If the builder did his work correctly then they are hardened, not case hardened. To do any polishing will require honing stones or diamond impregnated tools. Don't even try a file 'cause it will ruin it. And for goodness sake leave the Dremel in the drawer. I have had to fix many locks that were tinkered with by guys who didn't know what they were doing and ones that were rat-chewn by a Dremel.

The Queen Ann lock doesn't have a fly in the tumbler so it needs a fairly stiff trigger to work right and not stick the half cock notch. By stiff I'd say 2 1/2 to 4 pounds letoff. If you are used to shooting a gun with set triggers then a 3 pound trigger might "suck" but you can get used to it.

 

[rich pierce]

I advise people to not do lock tuning unless they are expert. It's too easy to make a gun unsafe. It's almost never the lock when the trigger pull is heavy, as stated above.

 

[matt denison]

but sometimes it is

Also the OP didn't say whether the trigger is stiff or creepy or scratchy, only that it sucks. some of the worst triggers I've seen were poor notch shape (Naraganset Arms Furguson) A long creepy scratchy triger with a backward angled full cock notch would really suck. The main spring impinging on the center of the tumbler can really suck and make for a horrible trigger pull. Bad triger pin placement, sear hole in the mortice too small, the working end of a sear spring diging iinto the top of the sear bar, endless combinataions of small things can add up to a trigger that sucks. Or as I said before, a guy used to set triggers with a half pound trigger will think that a simple trigger with a nice smooth 3 pound let off is a bad trigger. Until he gets used to it.

Recently I beat one of my friends on the trail walk. He wanted to see the gun I was shooting. I handed him my Henry English Pattern with a simple trigger. (He was shooting a gun with double set triggers) He cocked and snapped and asked how I could possibly shoot a gun with such a horrible trigger..? Now I'll tell you. It has a three pound pull but breaks clean as glass consistently shot after shot. Once you get used to it you know exactly when it is going to let go. Hopefully the sights are on the target when it does. :grin:

 

[mazo kid]

As others have said, I wouldn't try stoning the sear except as a very last resort. You might try stoning the SIDES of the trigger and tumbler, also the lock surface. I also "break" the edges of parts so as to minimize any chance of cutting/scraping. You can, carefully, lighten the sear spring some. Make sure the sear spring is not cutting or riding on the lock plate. If the sear is setting in the full cock notch fairly deep, you can soft solder a shim in the back of the notch to move the sear out a bit. These are some of the things I have tried, if you do these, you do so at your own risk

 

[Vaino]

Possibly the lock sear bar has wood interference either w/ the sides of the hole or the hole might not be deep enough. Apply spotting compound on the entire sear bar and see if there's color left on the wood....Fred

 

[LRB]

Both L&R Queen Annes I bought have a fly, and I believe the sear and tumbler are 01, just as a Chambers lock. 6150 is normally used for springs, and a file will cut it, even if hardened and not tempered.

 

[matt denison]

I have a copy of an article from the "Bevel Brothers" of Muzzleblast fame quoting Bob Cox, owner of L&R saying that their internals are 6150 and he gives instructions how to properly harden them. Sears and tumblers of 6160 go through a completely different heat/quench/temper process than springs of the same material. Springs are tempered at much higher temperature so they will be squishy and bend without breaking.

So, now that I think about this post it is silly to try to dianose this fellow's problem without more info.

 

[LRB]

They would only go through a different temper heat for other uses than springs. All hardenable steels have to be fully hardened before any tempering is done. That never changes if the best results are the target. I suspect there was a typo, a misunderstanding, or miscommunication in the article. Unfortunately, not uncommon with magazine articles. If you cannot cut the parts with a file, they are not 6150. At full hard, about 60 Rc, 6150 is noticably softer than a file, and can be cut relatively easy with a good file, using a little pressure. That said, with L&R locks, little would really surprise me.

 

[matt denison]

They would only go through a different temper heat for other uses than springs. All hardenable steels have to be fully hardened before any tempering is done. That never changes if the best results are the target. I suspect there was a typo, a misunderstanding, or miscommunication in the article. Unfortunately, not uncommon with magazine articles. If you cannot cut the parts with a file, they are not 6150. At full hard, about 60 Rc, 6150 is noticably softer than a file, and can be cut relatively easy with a good file, using a little pressure. That said, with L&R locks, little would really surprise me.

You might be very suprised to learn that several of the big time lock producers use 6150 for internals and springs. North Star West has for about 30 years. I have made thousands of springs and a coresponding amount of tumblers an sears from it. I would defy anyone to use their favorite file to cut one of my tumblers. They are very hard. Run your file across the nose of one of our sears and you will get a shiney streak the length of the file. Ruined.

I'm not hammering these things out in a forge on the back porch. I use heat treating ovens in controlled circumstances. I guarentee my locks for life and so far I will admit that I have replaced perhaps 5-6 main springs and 1 or 2 tumblers in the last ten years. Not a bad ratio when you figure about 1,000 locks in that time frame. 6150 works well and is a versitile alloy. It is re-annealable too - in other words after it has been hardened and if you want to make a modification you can anneal, work it and re harden. I wouldn't reccomend it for knife making like you do but is a boon for lock makers for many reasons - too many to go into here.

 

[LRB]

I am surprised. Thanks for the info.

 

[wayne1967]

I had the same problem with my rifle. I polished the trigger bar and the sear bar till they were like glass but if your trigger bar is making contact too far back from your trigger pin it isn't going to do alot of good. At least mine did not. I installed a different trigger on mine.