loading smoothbore with shot

[huntclub]

Just getting into smoothbore shotgunning. Thinking of doing a little squirrel hunting. I orderd an all in one package of wadding from circle fly. The kit includes 100 ea. of nitro cards, over shot , and 1/2"fiber cushions. My question is do you have to soak the fiber wads in anything ? I have two smoothbores, both 20 gauge. One being a tulle de chasse, and a North star chefs model trade gun. Any other suggestions would be welcome. :hmm:

 

[AJFedak]

HuntClub,
Loading a smoothbore is just like loading a modern hull. First the powder, thick over-powder card, cushion wad,(this step is something most shooters don't use), 1 thin over-shot card, shot then the final over-shot card. The first over-shot card will keep the shot from penetrating the soft cushion wad.

For hunting rabbits, I use 65 grains of FFFg and an equal volume of #6 shot (about 7/8 oz.) usually does a good job.
For squirrels, but I will increase the shot to 70 grain equivalent (about 1 oz.), and go up in size to #5. I find squirrel hide a little tougher than the fragile rabbit. This are the loads I use with a 16 gauge North Star Chiefs Grade trade gun. For waterfowl, I jumpt to 80-85 grains FFFg and 1

 

[musketman]

My question is do you have to soak the fiber wads in anything ?

I have used them both soaked and dry, when I soaked them, I used either #13 solvent or Hoppes #9, both work fine...

 

[roundball]

Depends on what you ordered...1/2" cushion wads can be had either way...I think most people use lubed wads and if you didn't specify dry, they probably assumed you wanted lubed

 

[tg]

Most folks around here get the dry fiber wads, lube (I use bees wax/olive oil mix) then cut in half and use a 1/4 inch wad.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I usually roll my fiber wads through a thin puddle of molten beeswax & Crisco (50/50 mix) on a cookie sheet. I found plain Crisco soaks in too much, but works well if you use them within a few days. Just wiping on Natural Lube or similar is enough. You don't need (or want to) soak them as that just adds weight (more recoil and less speed to the shot). Just an edge greasing is all that's needed.

 

Smooth bore needs to be treated just like any other BP arms, you have to go out and find a load.
My fowler just doesn

 

[Mainer]

Like Captchee, my 20 ga fowler (Caywood Wilson) hates wads. Recently I read on Caywoods website about a turkey load that uses no wads, just over shot cards and corn muffin mix. I just tried it yesterday and it made a believer out of me! My patterns improved tremendously.

Here's the website with the instructions.

http://www.caywoodguns.com/working_up_turkey_loads_for_opti.htm

I was really impressed with how much it helped my pattern. I now feel confident to shoot squirrels at 25 yards and know enough pellets will make contact to do the job. It takes a little extra time but if you find you can't get a good pattern with the wads then give this a try. :results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Brings up another interesting topic - non "wad" wads. I have used tow, but my favorite is bunched up chunks of paper wasp nests. Both work just as well as any "store-bought" wad.

As Captchee says: find out what YOUR gun likes.

In general, lowering the powder amount will tighten groups in a cylinder-bored muzzleloader.

More powder, less lead
Close in, wide spread.

Less powder, more lead
Shoots far, kills dead.

 

[roundball]

I use home made paper shot cups in my .62cal smoothbore for outstanding long range turkey loads...nine #6 pellets in a coke can at 40 yards...the "target face" of a coke can is only 2" x 4".

80grns FFg with 1+5/8oz #6's

 

[musketman]

Brings up another interesting topic - non "wad" wads.

Lets do that, I will start another thread on this subject...

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I shoot fiber wads alot in my SxS 12. DO NOT SOAK the fiber wads in anything. A big problem happens when they're soaked, the fiber wads swell up, they then are a tad bigger than your barrel, and when you try to push one into the muzzle, all the fiber material falls apart that was tightly compacted, and they are a big mess and become useless. You only need to lube the outside of the wad, and before you go shoot, take your favorite lube and lube them around the outside. Again do not soak fiber wads, felt wads you can soak as they don't come apart. I just lube felt wads the same as fiber wads, just before I go shoot clays or go on a hunt.
Ohio Rusty

 

[Slowpoke]

. DO NOT SOAK the fiber wads in anything. When you try to push one into the muzzle, all the fiber material falls apart that was tightly compacted, and they are a big mess and become useless.

OR,
Help me out here, I thought it was an advantage for your wad to fall apart after firing. It it remains whole, it tends to shoot/blow through your shot causing a hole in your pattern. I'm not disagreeing with what you said it just what I have heard. What your thoughts on wads causing holes in your pattern, does it play ar part?

Slowpoke

 

[gordy]

I don't have a fowler,but I do shoot a CVA Trapper 12ga. w/mod.[url] choke.In[/url] many ways the smooth bores with shot loads seem to take much more experimenting than other muzzleloaders.Most of the time I load with boughten wads,I've found that a quater inch cushion wad lightly lubed,works better than the full 1/2" cushion. I lke to use the lubed cushion wad as it keeps the fouling soft and easy to wipe,I think the patterens are a little better with just the cardboard over powder and over shot disc.Mr. Star used nothing but the cardboard and competed with the best shotgunners of His era.I enjoy experimenting with all the various combinations of wads, powder and shot,when You think Youv'e found the ultimate load be sure to keep track of the components,best to keep notes as I tend to forget if not written down.Seldom do any two guns do their best with the same load! :: :results:

 

[gordy]

Slowpoke:When I've gotten holes in the center area of my patterens,I reduced the powder charge 5 grains or so and it would clear up.I don't know if the gases tend to by-pass the over powder wad and disturbs the shot colum,or it trys to push the wad through the shot load.But cutting back the powder charge has worked for me. :: :results:

 

[Ohio Rusty]

That wad and shot column is coming out of that bore so fast I can't say if the wad falls apart or not. Wads cause holes in patterns due to their excessive speed pushing their way into the shot column and spreading it. Loads have to be worked up in order to find the best powder to shot ratio so the shot column continues toward the target as the wad slows and falls away somewhere down range. Too much powder or too heavy of a powder charge is usually what causes the fiber wad to spread the shot and sometimes creating a doughnut pattern, where you have a hole in the middle where the wad pushed on the center of the shot column, speading the shot pattern outward in a 360 degree pattern. Felt wads don't fall apart and they too can cause dought patterns due to excessive loadings. My SxS starts to show doughnut patterning with 90 Gr. of 2F and 1 1/4 oz. of shot. yet with just 5 grains less of powder, 85 gr. of 2F with 1 1/4 oz. of shot gives great patterns from my gun. So good that I've killed 33 out of the last 36 pheasants I've shot at. Every smoothbore is slightly different, and in patterning this SxS 12, the gun told me what it liked to give the best patterns. I've not shot without cushion fiber wads, as the wad helps scrape the fouling off the inner walls of the bore and push it down keeping the bore less cruddy, which is the same thing the over powder card does. What works for me may or not work the same for someone else. What works for me was figured out thru alot of trial and error and shooting. My gun is Cylinder/Cylinder bore. Fiber wads don't work well thru chokes loading from the muzzle. You can load fiber wads if you have removeable chokes, then screw the choke back in after loading. For chokes, felt wool wads are recommended as they compress easily and spring back to fit tight in the bore.
Ohio Rusty

 

[tg]

I don't know what type of fiber wads are falling apart when lubed but None of the guys I konw who use them have had any problems, I think most get theirs from TOW, I just tried tearing apart a 1/4 inch lubed one and a 1/4 inch dry one and found little difference???????

 

[Slowpoke]

You the man Rusty !!!! Thanks for the thoughtful response and with your experence and results I can't argue. I only played around with shot out of my smoothrifle. I'm going out this weekend and do some serious load developement.

Thanks again !

 

[Ohio Rusty]

TG .... not lubed ... Lubed with bore butter, crisco or what ever is fine. Soaking is the problem. The soaking is like a 50/50 mixture of Murphys Oil soap and water that shooters use, or a 50/50 mix Of water soluable oil like Ballistol and water that shooters use. After fiber wads are soaked for a while in that mixture, the wads gets soaked completely thru. The fibers swell and separate after they dry. Then you have the falling apart problem when you try to force that oversize fiberwad into the end of the barrel. Try it ... put a couple of wads in a bowl of 50/50 mix of dish soap and water and let them soak that up well, and let them dry. Try your tear test, and what you end up with is a pile and pieces of fibrous material that used to look like a shotgun wad. Just thought I'd clarify what I was referring to when I was talking about soaking a wad to lubricate it. Lubing it with a mixture like Bore butter consistency is just fine. That is what I use and it has always worked OK.
Ohio Rusty

 

[tg]

Gotcha, I kinda soak mine, but in warm beeswax/olive oil mix..a different spin on the meaning of "soak" I guess...