Im finishing my gun and need to do the lock now. Can anyone give me the sequence to disassemble and assemble, hints, or point me to a link. Its and L&R Trade lock. Thanks Sean
Lock Dissasembly
- Thread starter sean30ber
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Let me refraze that. Is it ok to just remove the friz and spring and the hammer, or does it all need to come apart.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 89
Are you taking the lock apart for the purpose of inletting it into the stock? If so, then yes, all the parts need to be removed so you are fitting just the lock plate, FIRST.
Remove the mainspring first. Use a clamp on the spring when the hammer is at full cock. That clamp will hold the spring at that compressed position. Then release the hammer to take tension off the spring, and remove it, and set it aside. Then the bridle can come off- two screws near the top of the lock plate. Then the "Fly " should be removed and set aside.
Now unscrew the sear spring screw a few turns, and use a needle nose pliers, with tape on the jaws to protect the spring, to slightly Pinch the spring to remove it. These are not strong springs, so don't pinch it hard, or very much. Once the spring is loose from the hole in the plate that fits the tab on the inside of the spring, to hold it to the lock plate, you can finish unscrewing the sear spring screw, and remove both the screw and the sear bar. Put them aside, together.
To remove the tumbler, you have to place the lock plate over a vise jaws, gapped to fit around the tumbler, and use a drift punch to push the tumbler away from the hammer. Unscrew the big headed screw in the hammer/cock- and set it aside. There is a square shaped stud with a threaded drill hole in its middle for that screw. Pick a punch that is wide enough to fit OVER the screw hole, but narrow enough to fit through the square opening in the hammer. Now tap on that punch gently until you feel it begin to move. Put a rag, or someone hand under the tumbler and vise, so it doesn't fall to the floor and get damaged. Once the tumbler separates from the hammer, both parts can be set aside.
Clamp the frizzen spring with the frizzen closed, and then open the frizzen to take the tension off that spring. Remove the spring. You probably have to remove a screw to do this in an L&R lock. set them aside Together. Now you can turn the lock plate over to expose the inside of the plate, and the screw that is the pivot for the frizzen. Unscrew that screw, and remove it, and the frizzen comes out in your hand.
The plate is now " disassembled.".
Remove the mainspring first. Use a clamp on the spring when the hammer is at full cock. That clamp will hold the spring at that compressed position. Then release the hammer to take tension off the spring, and remove it, and set it aside. Then the bridle can come off- two screws near the top of the lock plate. Then the "Fly " should be removed and set aside.
Now unscrew the sear spring screw a few turns, and use a needle nose pliers, with tape on the jaws to protect the spring, to slightly Pinch the spring to remove it. These are not strong springs, so don't pinch it hard, or very much. Once the spring is loose from the hole in the plate that fits the tab on the inside of the spring, to hold it to the lock plate, you can finish unscrewing the sear spring screw, and remove both the screw and the sear bar. Put them aside, together.
To remove the tumbler, you have to place the lock plate over a vise jaws, gapped to fit around the tumbler, and use a drift punch to push the tumbler away from the hammer. Unscrew the big headed screw in the hammer/cock- and set it aside. There is a square shaped stud with a threaded drill hole in its middle for that screw. Pick a punch that is wide enough to fit OVER the screw hole, but narrow enough to fit through the square opening in the hammer. Now tap on that punch gently until you feel it begin to move. Put a rag, or someone hand under the tumbler and vise, so it doesn't fall to the floor and get damaged. Once the tumbler separates from the hammer, both parts can be set aside.
Clamp the frizzen spring with the frizzen closed, and then open the frizzen to take the tension off that spring. Remove the spring. You probably have to remove a screw to do this in an L&R lock. set them aside Together. Now you can turn the lock plate over to expose the inside of the plate, and the screw that is the pivot for the frizzen. Unscrew that screw, and remove it, and the frizzen comes out in your hand.
The plate is now " disassembled.".
grey8833
40 Cal.
sean30ber:
Paul, as is usual, has given a great description of the process. Only thing to add is when he says clamp the mainspring: do buy yourself a mainspring clamp (say from Track of the Wolf, or anywhere else). Handy thing to have, if for nothing else than gun maintenance. Pliers or whatever are hard to use and will most surely carve up the mainspring. Mainspring clamps are not expensive.
Mike F
Paul, as is usual, has given a great description of the process. Only thing to add is when he says clamp the mainspring: do buy yourself a mainspring clamp (say from Track of the Wolf, or anywhere else). Handy thing to have, if for nothing else than gun maintenance. Pliers or whatever are hard to use and will most surely carve up the mainspring. Mainspring clamps are not expensive.
Mike F
Thanks guys, actually I need to finish the metal on the lock itself. Im going to cold blue it and knock it back to a grey finish. Can I just remove the hammer and frizen to finish the metal?
Complete lock disassembly is not difficult. Knowing how to do it now will be to your advantage over time.
Be careful not to ding the threads in the tumbler when you drive it out of the cock. And don't squeeze any springs more than you need to.
Salt
Be careful not to ding the threads in the tumbler when you drive it out of the cock. And don't squeeze any springs more than you need to.
Salt
Also, when you have your lock disassembled it is the perfect time to polish up the "internals" and the plate itself. This will make it a faster lock. When inletting the lock, do just the plate first, then add parts and inlet those. Makes for a neat looking inlet job and will keep the stock as strong as possible in that area. I've seen some stocks where the area under the lock was hogged out much deeper and wider than necessary. If you see some of the better inlet jobs, each part is inlet into a close fitting spot so it almost looks like a mirror image of the lock itself.Old Salt said:
All good info, The stock is done. Its in the proccess of staining and finishing. All the steel is done, Cold blued and knocked back to grey. All I have left is the lock. Just need to know if the hammer and frizen can be removed without dissassembling the whole thing. Or do I have to take it all down. I dont have a vise and dont have Main spring clamp. Do have all kinds of vice grips if needed. All I want to do is the face of the lock, frizzen and hammer. Can I just take that off and worry about the rest of the polishing later.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 89
There is no way to remove the hammer without first removing the mainspring and tumbler from the hammer. So, to answer you question, " NO".
I have removed the Frizzen- its separate and has its own spring to remove FIRST--- without affecting the rest of the lock, but that is all that you can do separately. The internal lock parts are all inter connected, and have to be for the lock to function. Tape the flat springs, and use a pen or pencil to mark the exact location of both the jaws on your visegrips, if you use them. That way if you happen to take the spring out of the vise, you will know where to return the jaws to the spring, and can slowly screw in the adjustment screw on the vise grips until the spring is Compressed JUST the correct amount again.
If you are going to polish the face of the lock plate, then use a separate piece of paper or cardboard to place behind the compressed spring, and draw lines to locate where the two arms of the spring are located when compressed properly. This give you a separate template to use if you remove the vise grips, change the adjustment on its jaws, and now have to figure out how much you can compress the spring without Breaking it! :shocked2: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:
If you don't polish the plate, then put the witness marks for the compressed spring right on the plate itself.
I have removed the Frizzen- its separate and has its own spring to remove FIRST--- without affecting the rest of the lock, but that is all that you can do separately. The internal lock parts are all inter connected, and have to be for the lock to function. Tape the flat springs, and use a pen or pencil to mark the exact location of both the jaws on your visegrips, if you use them. That way if you happen to take the spring out of the vise, you will know where to return the jaws to the spring, and can slowly screw in the adjustment screw on the vise grips until the spring is Compressed JUST the correct amount again.
If you are going to polish the face of the lock plate, then use a separate piece of paper or cardboard to place behind the compressed spring, and draw lines to locate where the two arms of the spring are located when compressed properly. This give you a separate template to use if you remove the vise grips, change the adjustment on its jaws, and now have to figure out how much you can compress the spring without Breaking it! :shocked2: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:
If you don't polish the plate, then put the witness marks for the compressed spring right on the plate itself.
mikemeteor
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2008
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 3
short answer is Yes, I think you're gonna find you have to "take it all down" if you want to take the hammer off.
Look at the internals and see (described above) how you're going to take the hammer off the tumbler shaft.
You really don't want to try that with the mainspring still in place, bearing on the tumbler.
Once you get the mainspring off, everything else is trivial.
... and don't lose the fly ! :thumbsup:
And IMHO if you're taking off the mainspring with vicegrips or pliers, you should consider doing the polishing while you have it apart this time. The more times you do it without a mainspring vise, the higher the odds for damage.
Look at the internals and see (described above) how you're going to take the hammer off the tumbler shaft.
You really don't want to try that with the mainspring still in place, bearing on the tumbler.
Once you get the mainspring off, everything else is trivial.
... and don't lose the fly ! :thumbsup:
And IMHO if you're taking off the mainspring with vicegrips or pliers, you should consider doing the polishing while you have it apart this time. The more times you do it without a mainspring vise, the higher the odds for damage.
mikemeteor
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2008
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 3
sorry for the redundant reply Sean - Paul and I were typing our answers at the same time.
Mike Brooks
Cannon
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2005
- Messages
- 6,686
- Reaction score
- 33
I can take a lock apart or put one back together in 30 seconds or less, no big deal.sean30ber said:
No problem. Ill tear it all down. Might as well get to know the lock personaly anyway. Thanks for all the replies. Sean
IMHO, a good mainspring vise is a must. This one from Chambers is about the best I have seen.
http://www.flintlocks.com/parts.htm
Scroll down about 2/3 of the page to the mainspring vise.
In addition, use a flat punch of the radius of the square hole in the cock, to remove the tumbler from the cock. Better yet, grind a round bar to a square slightly smaller than the square in the cock. From experience, using the cock retaining screw to drive the tumbler shaft out of the cock can, and often will ruin the screw threads.
One last thing, use a large shop towel to catch the tumbler and be sure remove the fly...take special care of the fly by taping it to the inside of the parts container, to prevent its loss...and they do get lost, as if they just fly away.
God bless
http://www.flintlocks.com/parts.htm
Scroll down about 2/3 of the page to the mainspring vise.
In addition, use a flat punch of the radius of the square hole in the cock, to remove the tumbler from the cock. Better yet, grind a round bar to a square slightly smaller than the square in the cock. From experience, using the cock retaining screw to drive the tumbler shaft out of the cock can, and often will ruin the screw threads.
One last thing, use a large shop towel to catch the tumbler and be sure remove the fly...take special care of the fly by taping it to the inside of the parts container, to prevent its loss...and they do get lost, as if they just fly away.
God bless
Last edited by a moderator:
If its a Siler lock you can compress the mainspring with pliers as well as the frizzen spring,any other lock proceed with caution as the mainspring can be easily broken.The cock is a press fit to the tumbler so it just won't fall apart.As Mike says easily done, contrary to what V-man says.
The one thing that (IMO) should NEVER be done is to try to pry the hammer or cock off with a screw driver.
That will mar the face of the lock and it will often deform the square hole in the hammer/cock so that it will never fit tightly again.
There is also a good chance of breaking off the square drive that is a part of the tumbler. It is often very hard and brittle.
That will mar the face of the lock and it will often deform the square hole in the hammer/cock so that it will never fit tightly again.
There is also a good chance of breaking off the square drive that is a part of the tumbler. It is often very hard and brittle.
I notices the finish on the L&R is like a parkerized texture. To do the cold Blueing then wooling it back to the Grey, Should I polish all surfaces glossy smooth, or just down to say 220 and some Steel wool, then do the blueing.
Thanks for the instructions on disassembly. It was easy. I just didnt want to break anything. Damn the fly is small, I can see that getting lost if you arent careful.
Thanks for the instructions on disassembly. It was easy. I just didnt want to break anything. Damn the fly is small, I can see that getting lost if you arent careful.
I use a piece of masking tape and stick the fly onto it. Then I fold it over the fly to keep it from getting knocked off.
It's a lot easier to see a piece of masking tape than it is those little flys.
It's a lot easier to see a piece of masking tape than it is those little flys.
Similar threads
