lock lubes in the cold

[djnye]

i would be very grateful to hear recommendations about lubrication of the lock and trigger mechanisms in sub-zero conditions. i don't mean "in the twenties with wet snow", i mean at -15 when the loggers go home because the oil has turned to grease and the grease has turned to epoxy.
my father cautioned to clean and dry the action(he used modern arms) and use it dry. if any lube was needed it was either a touch of graphite or molybdenum disulfide placed precisely where needed.
how does that stack for flintlocks being fired by crusty old men in shagnasty weather?

take care, daniel

 

[musketman]

I have done that, cleaned all traces of oil and lubes off and used the lock without anything.

Never had a freeze up yet, could be due to the wussy Ohio winters.

 

I had an issue of gun test magazine many years ago where they investigated this very subject. They tested everything from motor oil and ATF to fancy gun oils and almost everything you could imagine including dry. The test were done with some kind of rig that measure friction/resistance. The top winner for both hot (+40) and cold (-40) was 3 in 1 home sewing machine oil. It's all I use on my guns and although we do get -40 here, not usualy until after hunting season is over so I can't personally vouch for it's performance in cold cold weather

Cody

 

[Jack Walker]

You can use what they used to call "sweet oil": which is, light virgin olive oil. This works well in the colder climates.

 

[roundball]

While this is an interesting thread just for the technical aspect of it, believe me, at 40 below I myself wouldn't be worried about a rifle freezing up...me & mama would be under an electric blanket!

 

[Bald Baron]

Bull, that sounds interesting. I haven't read anybody mention, Ballistol. I got me a can recently, what are the thoughts on it. The advertisments sell it as a miracle, can be used for many things.

 

Once you get under about -30, there's more concern of mainsprings breaking that locks freezing.

Cody

 

[djnye]

being curious, i conducted a small experiment and put some olive oil in the zero degree freezer for a couple of hours. it turned hard and waxy. there is no doubt in my mind that it would adversely effect the functioning of the fly detent on my tumbler.

take care, daniel

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by djnye:
being curious, i conducted a small experiment and put some olive oil in the zero degree freezer for a couple of hours. Get an old ice cube tray (mini-cudes are best) and place a small amount of different lubes and oils in each cube depression.
(remember to label them)

Freeze for a day and see which one will do the better job.

I would place the tray inside of a sealed plastic bag too, to keep un-wanted smells and drips from mingling with your foods.

 

[squirejohn]

I remember the article Cody refered to in Gun Tests reports. It was published in July 1991. A companion article on rust prevention was published in April 1991. A brief synopsis of the relative qualities of the lubricants tested under simulated cold weather conditions ( 0 degrees F.) are:

Excellent: 2lbs force - Wolf's Head 20W50 motor oil,Tri-Flow, 3 in one oil, Browning Oil, Boeshield T-9, and Ballistol Spray. Wolf's Head also had the best rating(2lbs) in room temp. tests (65 degrees F.) The rest listed above were measured from 2.5 to 3.5 lbs. at room temp. Untreated metal was tested at 5 lbs under both warm and cold conditions. Wd-40 tested at 3 lbs at room and cold temps.

A total of 20 products were tested for lubricating properties of which 13 had also been previously tested as a rust inhibitor ( April 1991). Boeshield T-9 was the only product rated excellent in both categories. Ballistol was just a "whisker" behind being rated good to excellent as a rust inhibitor. It was rated excellent in the 48 hour rain and salt/spray test. A few rust spots developed after 48 hous in a damp environment after having been baked in an oven at 300 degrees F.

If I was going to pick one product for both it's lubricating and rust inhibiting qualities it would be Ballistol - not only from the above test results but also from other testimonials. Ballistol was developed for firearms and the 300 degree test was used to simulate hot barrel conditions that a skeet shooter might experience.

PS For long term (few months +) storage I use Rig in the barrel as a rust inhibitor - works great.

 

[djnye]

in my original inquiry i was intereted in lubes for very cold weather. though 0 degrees is cold, it is not very cold. i was serious when i said the loggers i know quit when it gets 15 below because the oils and greases thicken and solidify. our black powder season is in the middle of december and it can get that cold up here at that time of year.
i wonder what col. marsten and the alaska corps used during w.w.II patrolling the brooks range with his inuit soldiers? i wonder what inuit hunters today use in the far north? i think that friction is not the only consideration with delicate parts like the tumbler fly. i also think surface tension and change of state from liquid to solid are also important factors. at least graphite is dry.

take care, daniel

 

[No Powder]

Djnye
In cold weather I use a product called TRI-FLOW the label say it withstands tempeature extremes. A few years ago while deer hunting the temp.slipped down to -10 while we were in the field. A buddy of mine had his lock time get so slow me missed a deer. He uses 3in1 oil on his lock. My old flinter went off with no noticable change in lock time. I clean the lock, spray it down with this product, let it sit a couple of minutes then wipe it down. Tri-Flow leaves behind a Teflon coating just be sure and shake the can well, so you get a good amout of Teflon when you spray. There is another product called Dry Slide that is supposed to be good but I have no experiance with it.
No Powder

 

[roundball]

FYI, several companies now have Teflon based lubes...
ie: Remington's is called "Rem Oil", package says:
"test proven from -20 to 120 degrees F.

I've been trying it for a couple years on small internal parts of locks, revolvers, etc.

(living in NC I use it for the Teflon lube benefit, not for any temperature extremes)

 

[Randy]

I hunted in northern Wisconsin for years and never gave this a thought. I always lubed the internal lock parts with Birchwood Casey's Synthetic gun oil (which also contains teflon). I see on the label that it claims to remain stable and lubricating from -55 to +300 . I can vouch for it down to about -20.

Horse Dr.

 

[TwoShadows]

Hey Djnye ! Next time you go over to Marquette, stop at the motorcycle shop on the south side of Hwy 441 as you are coming in to town. It's across from a motel. Used to be the Eagle Mills Harley Davidson shop. The Owners name is Greg. He is an old hand with rag nosed rifles and can be of great help. Ask him for a bottle of graphite cable lube. Black yukky stuff, but works great with extreme cold and only requires a minute amount. Tell him you were sent by Kentucky's version of "Red Green"...Big Russell.

 

[Zonie]

Although I haven't tried it I do know that Graphite (which is carbon) needs moisture to provide lubricity and I wonder how much lubricity it has when the moisture is frozen harder than He**.

The modern Synthetic oils all have the ability to resist thickening. That's why the Mil-PRF-23699 Synthetic Gas Turbine oil is used in jet engines. The Auxiliary Power Units (which fly on every Commercial Airline and I am intimately familiar with) get down to -65 F on long flights and must start without exception.

I am not suggesting that you run out and buy 23699 but I am suggesting that Birchwood Casey Synthetic (and for that matter Mobil-1 0-20 weight) should work as well as anything at -40F.
Any of you up there in the far north want to run some testing for us? It would be interesting.

The Dry Silicone type lubes should also provide lubricity at these low temperatures.

 

[TwoShadows]

Whoa 'Zonie ! Don't recon I said powdered graphite! Graphite cable lube is graphite in a synthetic suspension. The moisture is already in the synthetic....it ain't rocket surgery...I didnt aim to get long winded...and won't. If I offend, please excuse. It is also a factoid that 95% of existing locks have a great excess of lubricant in them....most of the known universe seems to feel that if a little will do a little good, then lots and lots must be better....

 

[Voyageur]

Before Brownells stopped selling it, I bought a couple of pints of Sperm Whale Oil. I use very little on the sliding surfaces and have never had any trouble with it. I cannot remember ever hunting when it was colder than -10 F.

Voyageur

 

[Stumpkiller]

I use Break Free CLP on my firearms. It meets mil.spec. PD-48 for extreme hot and cold conditions (can't find exactly what that is, but it sounds good). The trick with any lubricant is to use just enough.

I have been out to -10

 

[Zonie]

Right you are TwoShadows when you say "most of the known universe seems to feel that if a little will do a little good, then lots and lots must be better...." and right you are to point out that this is pure foolishness.

Actually I would say that even if a person dropped a lock in a bucket of kerosene or paint thinner and sloshed it around for a minute, then removed it and blew it dry there would be enough residual oil in the areas that really need it to protect things like the locks tumbler, mainspring and fly for the few times it will be fired on a hunt anyway.

Notice I did Not say to dump it into acetone, lacquer thinner or MEK. Those chemicals will actually break the oil molicules down and destroy them.

Oh, about MIL-PRF-23699 at -65F in case someone asks you. At -65 degrees F. it is about the same thickness as STP at room temperature but it does lubricate things like the high speed pinion which is turning at 700 Revolutions per Second (42000 RPM).