Lock question

[Finnwolf]

Like to get a few opinion from experience builders. I'm building my first rifle, a Haines Lancaster. I'm working on the lock right now (large Siler) and I've disassembled it for the first time. Appears to me that the plate already has a slight draft on the inside for inletting. I intend to brown the lock and barrel and finsig the brass antigued.
Do I need to polish or buff the lock or brown it as is. What's the best way to finish the lock?
Thanks,
Finnwolf

 

[rich pierce]

I'm an outlier here, probably. Original locks were all forged then filed then polished and most of them were case hardened. Now locks are cast and the castings have a grainy surface nothing like the surface of original locks when new. Nothing like it at all. But it is common for folks to brown them as they are and they do take brown well with that grainy surface and they look a little old already, a little pitted. It's done this way nowadays because nobody would pay what it would cost to have American made locks nicely polished as they should be. And so folks think, "that's how locks look." Then they praise the good lockmakers we have as though they walk on water. Yes, there are fine locks being made, many of which function as well as flintlocks have ever functioned. But they are not the equivalent, in finish, lockplate hardness, etc, of original locks. I'm sure they'd like to make them at that level, but the market will not allow it, and I myself would not be able to afford such locks. Still, I am pretty sure the modern locks would be rejected by armorers of the 18th century because of poor exterior finish. That is pretty close to blasphemy and I'll have my feet held to the fire for saying it.

I am happy to take the excellent offerings available now at the good prices at which they are sold, and spend between 4 and 12 hours tuning and polishing them before finishing.

I polish my locks, inside and out, working surfaces and non-working surfaces. Then I go ahead and case harden, age or put a patina or finish on as the style and plan for the gun dictates.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've polished all my locks, inside and out. The sand blasted finish just doesn't work for me, even browned. I'm willing to do the polishing myself because I know that I'm getting a quality lock for a lot less money than if it came with a high polish. Besides, I actually enjoy the work and watching the shine appear!

 

[Finnwolf]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. Rich, I totally agree. I'm not wealthy and, although the lock itself functions great, with what I paid for the kit, I was disappointed at the outsude finish. On the other hand, I marvelled at the finish of the Rice barrel. But, if a polished lock was that much more expensive, I would not even have purchased the kit.
Now, what I was really driving at - in detail, how do you finish a lock to what it should look like, what steps, what grits, what tools? Keep in mind I want to brown it.
Thanks,
Finn

 

[LSU TIGER]

I start with a bastrad cut mill file, going to a smooth cut, then from 180 grit to 400, or 600 depending on the look I want. A bit of caution on the frizzen: it's hard and will not file. Use emery cloth to polish.

 

[tg]

The question is kind of a difficult one, if this is a Haines type gun from the 1770's the lock would likely not be browned. so I don't know how you would get it to look the way it should and be browned.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I generally just use sand paper, going from 200 grit to finer grits until I am pleased with the finish. All you are removing is the sand blasted finish the maker put on the lock. You can do a high shine or a sort of matte finish, but as tg says, it shouldn't be browned. You could case harden it, I suppose. Not sure about bluing it.
On the other hand, it's your rifle and no one at most re-enactments is going to jump on you for having a browned rifle.

 

[rich pierce]

Whatever tools and supplies you use, it's important to not round things over, or to dish the areas around screw holes. To prevent this I always back any abrasives with a flat file, flat stick of wood, etc. Irregular shaped parts like the cock, top jaw, rounded pans, etc are a challenge and keeping transitions sharp on Germanic locks is challenging.

I use a series of files, some emery paper, then go to a flat maple stick embedded with rottenstone. Sometimes I use a sharpening stone.

As far as the dges and "draft" are concerned, the surfaces to be inlet- these should be as carefully finished as the exterior, and the angles kept very uniform and clean.

 

This is what happens when you let the government step in and pass minimum wage and child labor laws!!

Loss of quality, loss of good hand labor, loss of pride in workmanship!

Anyone have a healthy first born son that I can buy for an indenture or apprintice? I'll teach him how to properly pump a bellows and polish lickplates!

Oh for the good old days!

:kid:

 

[Birddog6]

IMHO, if you are building your first rifle, I think you just stepped in way over your head in thinking you can build a functional lock. Possibly you can, but for most first time builders, that is like saying I am going to build a car to take to the drag strip, send me one of "Big Daddy's" engines in pieces & I will build it.

I think ya should forget the lock, put it in a bag & put it away for a later build. Get a Chambers Siler from Jim Chambers & go ahead & build the rifle & get it done. Then play with the lock for the next rifle or 2-3 later. Get one built ya can shoot & then tinker with the lock, as it is not as easy to build as it looks.
If you saw the locks built from 100 dif guys (general builders) most likely 2-3 out of the hundred would be built correctly........ Now I am not saying they will not work, I mean wrk right, look right, be reliable, be consistant, etc.

I suggest ya build the rifle, do the lock later..

:imo:


(PS: After saying all of that, most guys nowdays forgot who the "Big Daddy" of drag racing is.. ha ha !)

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Am I mis-understanding here? I thought you were dealing with a finished, assembled lock and had just taken it apart to polish it up a little. Assembling a lock from a kit definitely requires a bit more than sandpaper and patience.

 

[Finnwolf]

Hi BD6,
Who could forget Big Daddy Don Garlits? There are a lot of gray hairs under this beautiful cap I wear!
I must've confused you with my post - I'm not buildin a lock - I have a Chambers large siler and I'm asking if most builders finish (buff, file, sand) their locks or just brown/blue them as they come. I did not expect the rough, gritty finish that the lock has.
I would truly value your advice - you have built many a fine rifle and a few Haines rifles too. What do you do to the lock when a customer orders a rifle for hunting and range work? I'm not a rondy goer or re-enactor, just a gut trying to build a nice, basic hunting gun.
Finnwolf

 

[Birddog6]

You are 100% correct, I misunderdstood you. I thought you were building the lock. I appologize........... Please excuse my post.

As for what the customer asks for, I ask them what kind of finish they want on the lock & try to get it to what they want. Some want rough, some as is, some as is but browned, some want polished but browned (rarely), some want them to shine like chrome. Regardless of the finish, I always file off the casting marks & rough spots, etc. Usually when I brown one I clean it up first & polish it down to a 220 finish, then I very lightly buff blast it to open the pores of the lock & then brown it.

You also have to keep in mind of what you are buying for the money invested. To build a lock, polish it & tune it & etc. takes Hours of work, not just a few minutes. So in reality a completly shiney polished tuned lock built right is a $250 or more item (IMHO), not one you can get for a $ 120. I think by casting all of those parts & building them & getting what Jim Chambers supplies for $120. ? It is an Exceptional buy...... and definately the best buy for the money in a Lifetime warranted lock.

If I was to blue one I would polish it down to 600 & then use a buffing wheel on it til it shines like chrome, then I would fire blue it.

:results:

 

[Finnwolf]

No apology necessary my friend - we come by our mistakes honestly.
I appreciate the time you took to answer my question. As I said, I'm building a hunting gun and I'm leaning toward browned lock and barrel like the one Keith Casteel built which is now on TOTW's page - recently dropped from $9999 to $8999.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/finnwolf/AAA-604_2.jpg

I have a piece of wood close to the one on Keith's gun and I really like the looks. I'm not 100% yet though, I could see doing the lock and barrel in a deep blue. Guess I'll decide when I get there. I'm guessing that the blue is the more pc but that's really not in the equation for me.

I was curious what most people do with the Siler "factory" finish.
Thanks BD,
Finnwolf

 

[LSU TIGER]

I almost always polish mine bright. No matter what finish I choose for the barrel, it's right.

 

[Darkhorse]

To keep things simple you can always just brown it just as it is. I do.
You will probabaly be very happy with the finish and appearance. I am.

 

Possibly you can, but for most first time builders, that is like saying I am going to build a car to take to the drag strip, send me one of "Big Daddy's" engines in pieces & I will build it.

BD6, what a great analogy

(PS: After saying all of that, most guys nowdays forgot who the "Big Daddy" of drag racing is.. ha ha !)

Hey man, now you're making me feel OLD. I DO remember "big daddy" Don Garlits (sp) and if memory serves, he lost a foot when his tranny exploded and because of that, pioneered the rear engine dragster. Please tell me I'm wrong so I can go back to my dream world thinking I'm still just a kid and that 20 year old girls think I'm hot. ::

Cody