Lock time

[Titus]

What kind of lock time can I expect from my percussion Lyman GPH? I know its pretty darn fast but I want to know if anyone can tell me milliseconds wise? :hmm:

 

[jtmattison]

I doubt anyone here has measured it but I bet if you do your part and keep it clean, use real black powder, and a good cap, you won't be able to tell the difference between it and a centerfire rifle.

HD

 

[Titus]

thanks HD. :thumbsup: I get incredibly fast lock time with my german powder and CCI's. :hatsoff: Just wondered if anyone has ever measured theirs? :winking: :grin:

 

[JWP]

Your shooting a primitive weapon - what makes the difference ? Not intended to ruffle your feathers :v

 

[Titus]

just interested.

 

[MikeC]

With all my caplocks using the BP or Pyrodex can't tell the difference between them and centerfire weapons. for all intent and purposes it should be instantanous, anything but and something is not right.

 

[JWP]

Titus - I didn't mean to sound like a prude. Seems the older I get, the less I give thought to the many questions I once had in mind :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

I'm going by memory (which may not be a good idea), but several years ago some testing was done to determine the speed of various Flintlocks along with a percussion lock and a modern cartridge rifle.

Don't quote me, but as I recall the Flintlock was about 40 thousandths of a second, the Percussion was about 10 thousandths of a second and a modern high quality centerfire was about 4 thousandths of a second.

All of these are fast enough that the human eye/mind can't tell the difference.

zonie

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I'm going by memory (which may not be a good idea), but several years ago some testing was done to determine the speed of various Flintlocks along with a percussion lock and a modern cartridge rifle.

Don't quote me, but as I recall the Flintlock was about 40 thousandths of a second, the Percussion was about 10 thousandths of a second and a modern high quality centerfire was about 4 thousandths of a second.
All of these are fast enough that the human eye/mind can't tell the difference.

zonie

I'd say your numbers are quite close. The data I collected was for flintlocks, and .040 would catch a number of them. An original Joseph Manton averaged .0288 sec - the fastest I've ever tested. The bulk of reproduction flints I tested fell in the .040 to .0550 area. Forty thousandths is quite good.

For cap locks main spring strength is very important. I have never had good luck timing them because there was no pan to ignite. And - I really didn't care.

As for modern stuff, I think companies publish numbers. I remember an ad where Remington said a bullet from a Model 788 was out the barrel before a model 70's was out of the brass. I cannot substantiate their claim. Really don't care here either.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[paulvallandigham]

Different people mean different things when they talk about ignition time. For the purest, it is the time from the moment the sear lets loose of the trigger until ignition of the main charge occurs. But for others, the time it takes for the hammer to fall or cock to fall does not enter the equation.

In Flintlocks, we have the time it takes the cock to fall, the time it takes for the sparks cut from the frizzen to ignite the priming charge, and the time it takes the priming charge flame to ignite the powder in the barrel. With a percussion gun, the flame from the percusson cap travels close to the speed of light, so that it closely approximates the firing of modern, cartridge guns. However, the distance the firing pin in a modern rifle travels to ignite the primer is so much shorter than how far a hammer falls on a percussion action, or a cock falls on a flint action, that even the fastest percussion action only comes " close ", and that time is several milliseconds slower than the modern rifle.

In flintlocks, the shooter wants a shower of sparks to be struck from the face of the frizzen on contact, and those sparks to be THROWN in to the priming pan to ignite that powder. If his vent is located properly in relation to the priming pan, the flame from the priming powder will enter the touch hole( vent) and ignite the main powder charge quickly. kBOOM! Not, KA-A-sh-h-Boom! The very reason we instruct new flintlock shooters about timing of the lock, angles for the flints, loading the powder charge loose, poking a hole through the vent into the powder charge so that the heat and flame can reach more than one granule of powder to speed ignition, and positioning the vent higher than the top of the flashpan, and banking the priming powder away from the barrel so that there is air next to and under the vent, to speed ignition is because all these " tricks" are needed to get the fastest ignition with a flintlock. Often, other spectators cannot tell the difference between the speed at which a flintlock fires and a percussion rifle fires. We know that the flint is a few milliseconds slower, no matter what we do, but when you get it going that fast, no shooter can move the sights far off target before the ball or bullet is on the way to the target, in the added time it takes a flintlock to fire.

 

[Titus]

Thanks for all the replies guys. :bow: I am sometimes maybe a bit too technically orientated, but stuff like this really interests me. :hmm: Thanks again too all for your views. :thumbsup:

Paul, some real valid points you raised there. I had a discussion with a less than average informed BP shooter who believes he knows all about the very same subject. He is of the opinion that when you shoot a ML, you have to leave your rifle absolutely dead still for at least 3 seconds after your shot cause it might influence the flight path of the ball/bullet... :bull:

 

[d.thomson]

Fallow through is always good but you don't need to be anal about it. Just my 2 cents. F.K.

 

[jtmattison]

He is of the opinion that when you shoot a ML, you have to leave your rifle absolutely dead still for at least 3 seconds after your shot cause it might influence the flight path of the ball/bullet... :bull:

The deer is dead by then.

HD

 

[paulvallandigham]

Follow through is important, particularly at the range when shooting at bullseyes. However, in the field, that animal is either down, or running, and waiting for 3 seconds serves no purpose at all. Hunting Dawg is right: by that time, its dead!

Follow through on the range, tells you how you are holding your rifle, and if its square to your shoulder and the target in recoil. People cant their guns, squeeze them with one hand or both, and mount the gun to their arms or shoulders differently shot after shot, and all those things can change the POI. Follow through, where you keep your head on the stock until the muzzle comes down out of recoil tells you if you are doing these things, as the muzzle and front sight almost never will return to where you were pointing them when the gun went off.

You also have to learn to do a different hold and follow through when you shoot from a standing rest, whether it be a tree, pole, or walking stick. At very close ranges--- 50 yds and under for a deer sized target--- little mistakes are not going to cost you venison. However, at the longer ranges, they will.

 

[Titus]

Yup. If only this guy knew what follow through actually meant... :rotf:

Valid points Paul, one of the less concentrated on things by a lot of shooters to replicate their shots. :thumbsup: