London Gunsmith

[Coot]

Looking for any information on a London gunsmith. A flintlock barrel on an auction gun is marked "Farral, London" but the lock is engraved as "Farrall" or perhaps "Farrail" (the engraving is worn at the end of the name & I cannot be sure but the name has one more letter than on the barrel).

 

[ResearchPress]

Can't find reference to a gunmaker of that name. It may be the name of the retailer.

David

 

[JV Puleo]

There is probably no more meaningless term than "London" on an English gun. Almost everyone, especially export merchants used that address even though nearly none of their guns were made there. Photos of the name and especially the proof marks on the barrel (usually at the breech on the left side) might help narrow down the field but, as the comment above suggests, it could easily be a B'ham trade-made gun and the name is that of a retailer.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

There is probably no more meaningless term than "London" on an English gun. Almost everyone, especially export merchants used that address even though nearly none of their guns were made there. Photos of the name and especially the proof marks on the barrel (usually at the breech on the left side) might help narrow down the field but, as the comment above suggests, it could easily be a B'ham trade-made gun and the name is that of a retailer.

Or it may not be English at all. :thumbsup:

 

[TFoley]

Or it may not be English at all. :thumbsup:

Could be right.

The name Farrell or Farrall is uncommon enough - my aunt married one Mr John O'Farrell in 1943. But I've never seen the name spelled as shown by the OP.

tac

 

[Coot]

Got a good look at the proof marks on brass barrel - It has both the Crown over "CP" intertwined initials and the Crown over "V" (viewed) - both London marks. In between the two oval proof marks is a rubbed "B" or "F". The lock name is R Farrall - the "R" and the second "l" in Farrall are not on the "Farral" on the barrel. Hope to get more info, maybe images that can be posted next week.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Got a good look at the proof marks on brass barrel - It has both the Crown over "CP" intertwined initials and the Crown over "V" (viewed) - both London marks. In between the two oval proof marks is a rubbed "B" or "F". The lock name is R Farrall - the "R" and the second "l" in Farrall are not on the "Farral" on the barrel. Hope to get more info, maybe images that can be posted next week.

Coot,

The "CP" is actually a "GP" for gunmaker's proof.
This could be Richard Farran, a Dublin silversmith, hence the "F" which is a foreigner's mark. If this is correct, then you are looking at a fairly early piece.

 

[TFoley]

Sir - to my mind there is a small problem with that idea. Until 1922, when Ireland gained a measure of independence and became the Free State, Ireland was not considered to be 'foreign'.

Dublin also had its own proof-house at the time that this pistol was made.

Can you confirm that this stamp was applied to gun-makers on the island of Ireland?

tac
Supporter of theCape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Sir - to my mind there is a small problem with that idea. Until 1922, when Ireland gained a measure of independence and became the Free State, Ireland was not considered to be 'foreign'.

Dublin also had its own proof-house at the time that this pistol was made.

Can you confirm that this stamp was applied to gun-makers on the island of Ireland?

tac

The foreigner's mark was used to denote not belonging to the Gunmaker's company.

Farran was never listed as a gunmaker in Dublin or London to my knowledge but listed as a Dublin silversmith. Although his silversmith mark has been found on some silver gun hardware his name has also been associated with more than providing silver hardware for some examples of the period. Whether there is anything to it or not, I don't know.

 

[TFoley]

Sir - to my mind there is a small problem with that idea. Until 1922, when Ireland gained a measure of independence and became the Free State, Ireland was not considered to be 'foreign'.

Dublin also had its own proof-house at the time that this pistol was made.

Can you confirm that this stamp was applied to gun-makers on the island of Ireland?

tac

The foreigner's mark was used to denote not belonging to the Gunmaker's company.

Farran was never listed as a gunmaker in Dublin or London to my knowledge but listed as a Dublin silversmith. Although his silversmith mark has been found on some silver gun hardware his name has also been associated with more than providing silver hardware for some examples of the period. Whether there is anything to it or not, I don't know.

Ahah, that kind of furriner. I see now.

Thank you for that.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[dave_person]

Hi Capt Jas,
You can see what I think is the gun (a blunderbuss) at Cowan's Auction website. The lock and barrel clearly say Farral or Farrall with a first name initial "R." Also, I am not sure that the foreigner's mark was just an "F". I think it was usually in an oval or under a cartouche. I wonder if the "B" on the barrel joined with the "F" indicate the barrel maker.

dave

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Hi Capt Jas,
You can see what I think is the gun (a blunderbuss) at Cowan's Auction website. The lock and barrel clearly say Farral or Farrall with a first name initial "R." Also, I am not sure that the foreigner's mark was just an "F". I think it was usually in an oval or under a cartouche. I wonder if the "B" on the barrel joined with the "F" indicate the barrel maker.

dave

Could be Dave.
I believe post to about 1740 the foreigner's mark was an "F" under a crown.
Can't find the gun on the Cowan's website.

 

[Coot]

The gun where the name is found was a brass barrel blunderbuss sold at Cowan's Auctions in their most recent antique gun sale. It was lot #871. I checked & their site still (as of today) has photos up & the photos even have a zoom feature.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Thanks.
Don't know why I missed it before.
That still looks like a foreigner's mark to me according to the size. Looks like a nice piece.
I find no such maker in any of my resources but it is surely not the man I aforementioned.

 

[JV Puleo]

From Blackmore's "London Gunmakers"

There are two entries under "Farrall/Farrill." The first, George Farrell shows up as an apprentice in the gunmakers company 1681. There doesn't seem to be further reference to him.
The second Farrell is John, who was free of the gunmakers company in 1746 but supposedly became a printer and died in 1796. Neither of these are very likely if the gun, in fact has the foreigner's mark since, as members of the company, they would have had access to the proof house.

 

[JV Puleo]

Also, Farralll's makers mark isn't recorded. It almost certainly contained an "F" and the location described, between the proof marks, is where it should be. Without photos its impossible to tell what you have but this is a distinct possibility.