Long Land Pattern Muskets

[scroggwe]

I have just sold an AR15 in my collection and am going to use the money to buy a Long Land Pattern Brown Bess to go along with my Pedersoli Short Land Pattern Brown Bess. I can't decide which one to buy though. Several Companies are now selling these muskets that are made in India. So far I am leaning towards the one sold by Loyalist Arms as it has a wooden ramrod and no nose cap (I believe it is the 1728 pattern). I kind of want these features, as I don't want a Bess that is just a longer version of the Short Land Pattern. Middlesex Village and Heritage also sell the Long Land Pattern Besses, but theirs have steel ramrods and brass nose caps. I am also thinking about buying a Sea Service Brown Bess. I can't make up my mind. Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of these Indian made Besses. Good points/bad points? Also, is it true that the vent hole is not drilled on these muskets and if true, how hard is it to drill the vent hole?

 

People with the Loyalist version seem to be happy. I had a bad experience with a Heritage Bess due to extremely poor/lousy/infantile machining in general. The screws were way undersize for the threaded holes they went into- including the leaking threads of the breech plug.
: Loyalist assures me they use a different breecher and a different mfg'r altogether- as there are supposedly many in India. Loyalist told me that the barrels on their Bess's were 1.25"(I believe) across at the breech - however - the Long Land Pattern's barrel should be 1.4" - please check with them as this model had a heavier barrel. To be correct, it should have the much wider barrel.
: One of these days, I want to see a Loyalist Musket, but for me, shipping is $50.00 each way if not satisfied & at this time, I must buy in US funds, as they overcharge Canadians on the exchange. So - I must pay a bank it's dividend for the 'foreign' money, to spend in my own country - oh well, griping about being ripped off by one's own countryman stinks - so does getting ripped off.
: So- check with them on barrel size. If they tell you the thin barrel is correct, they are lying. Measure some originals up & they will all be of "The King's Long Land Pattern" - 1.4" give or take a "couple" thou - not 1/10".

 

[scroggwe]

Thanks Daryl for your quick answer. It sounds like the Loyalist Long Land Pattern Brown Bess may be the best one, even if the barrel breech is thinner than an original. I'm not real picky on this dimension as long as the musket is safe to shoot. I no longer re-enact. I am just a target shooter now, so that dimension at the breech would not upset me too much as long as the musket is safe to shoot. I went back to Loyalist website and reread their shipping section. It seems that they will ship a musket to a USA address with the vent hole already drilled, but will ship the lockplate separately to satisfy US Customs. So you believe the workmanship and quality of the Loyalist Arms Bess's are better?

 

[frenchfusil]

My friend bought a Loyalist long land Bess. It doesn't look to bad, personally I would scrape it down and refinish it with linseed oil but thats me. The only problems he has had with it are ignition, letting me play with it and hitting the target :crackup: (sorry buddy couldn't resist), the pan is EXTREMELY shallow and on his has a bulge in the middle of the pan which prevents the prime from working properly, basically he has to over prime the pan to get it to go off reliably, which makes moving with the loaded musket difficult. This problem could most likely be fixed with a Dremel (or a hand held high speed death machine of your choice). Also the frizzen doesn't seem to spark to well even with a nice fresh, sharp black English flint. Thats what I have seem from him using his, he joined this board so hopefully he will weigh in on this

Mkui Medal
Guerre Abenakis

 

[scroggwe]

I must apoligize for starting this post, as I found a post on Indian Brown Besses on page 3! :sorry: I should have done a search first. From reading that post, it appears that the Loyalist Arms Long Land Brown Besses are assembled in Nova Scotia from Indian made parts. This kind of tells me that they are probably more carefully assembled and of a better quality. I emailed Loyalist Arms and told them I was getting ready to place an order. I need to email they again and find out how long it takes to ship. Someone in the other post said it took 4 months and that is way too long in my opinion. I will not order from them if it takes that long. I will order something else instead. I hate waiting for a gun that I have ordered, but especially if it takes that long.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Someone in the other post said it took 4 months and that is way too long in my opinion. I will not order from them if it takes that long. I will order something else instead. I hate waiting for a gun that I have ordered, but especially if it takes that long.

You think 4 months is too long. Let me tell you . . .

Anything under 6 months is "off the shelf" in gunsmith years.

12 months means "I've got the parts on hand."

With the Indian Besses, they probably have to factor in monsoons and Thuggee attacks.


What do you suppose they use for powderhorns in India?

 

[musketman]

I must apoligize for starting this post, as I found a post on Indian Brown Besses on page 3! :sorry: I should have done a search first.

That's OK, we'll talk about it again, says Musketman: Smoothbore Moderator...

 

[scroggwe]

What do you suppose they use for powderhorns in India?

Good question, I never thought of that before!

 

[musketman]

What do you suppose they use for powderhorns in India?

Good question, I never thought of that before!

India (Mughal) Jade Powder Horn
circa 1700

 

[Ppsh41]

Why don't you sell another AR15 and buy a First Pattern Brown Bess from G L Jones:

http://www.muzzleloader-guns-glj.com/LongLand.htm

 

Bill- I don't know if the ones Loyalist sells are better or not.
: I have received so many wishy-washy, skirting, dodging answers from the outfits that sell them, that I wouldn't pay more than $300.00 US- and then if the seller paid the shipping if I sent it back. What I am trying to say, is that there is absolute junk out there, in 1/2 stocks and full stocks, better finished and with better parts than what these Indian guns have. It is unfortunate that no one else is making something worth the money, in the $500.00 US range.
: I was told by Loyalist's rep. that there is a separate business in India that does the breeching now and that they use that outfit. I was told exactly the same thing by Military Heritage & Middlesex as well so I figure that probably the same outfit does all of the breeching now, for the several outfits in India who are making these muskets. This means my Sea Service was breeched by the same outfit that does Loyalist guns. I was told by Loyalist that their breeches have the same flash-guard as did the breech on my musket. A picutre of my breech plug is included in this post.

 

[2nd artillery]

I got a land land pattern out of loyalist arms. But thy calledit the transitional modle. IT has a brass band on the end and a metal rod. I am happy with it. I'ne shot it live fire many times. But they are much heavyer than the petersoli.

 

I just checked out the site and these guns are vey low priced for custom guns. If a person wants an English Fowler in parts from Track, for just over $500.00. For a fee, they'll inlet the barrel, like the .75 cal Dutch barrel, and that gun would turn into a beautiful smoothbore for plinking trackofthewolf and hunting. or custom guns .
: BTW - leather covered English flasks made by Dixon and others, were popular in India.