Looking for a modern flintlock pistol

[Setzer77]

Hi there, new to forums and muzzleloading. Always wanted a flintlock, but I have some questions and some special interests. I was looking for one with a full stock, rifled barrel, and less angled grip. I know pedersoli makes some, and there's a lyman. Don't want to spend a whole lot of money on one, since it's not a huge hobby for me, but still would like a quality shooter that provides enjoyment. Here's a pic of what kind of design I like, and actually the exact kind I'm looking for:
[url] http://www.ambroseantiques.com/fpistols/towerpistol.htm[/url]

if I missed a FAQ somewhere about different brands, differnt types, I'm sorry. Any info is always welcome, and I love reading about historical type firearms.

Thank you

 

[bwhoffman]

the lyman pretty much meets your criteria.

 

[torn moc]

Middlesex village has EXACTLY what you want:[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/PELD.shtml[/url]

nice quality too...

also Loyalist arms has them...same price:[url] http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/light_dragoon.html[/url]

nice pistols!!!

WELCOME TO THE FORUM! Lots of great people here !!!
let us know how you like it when you get it!!!

 

[renovato]

If the lyman appeals to you, you can't do much better. They're great shooters and surprisingly accurate. A lot of gun for the money.

Welcome to MLF!

 

[Setzer77]

Well, you guys are officially awesome, I think I found a new home. Sadly, I'm going to have to wait about 2 months to get one as that's when I'll be getting back from a new job on the road. Is there any difference between the heavy and light dragoon? I only used the light as an example of style, I didn't actually expect to find one. Is it safe to assume that most of the loyalist arms or middlesex pistols are of good quality, and I should just get which appeals to me most?

Edit: I found some really nice pistols on the middlesex site, namely the germanic dragoon and the english sea service with the belt clip.

 

[davy]

That's the problem then isn't it? Too many dang choices! :hmm: We could not allus say that however! :thumbsup:

Welcome to the board amigo & good luck finding your dream hogleg! :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[Setzer77]

I've got a couple months to decide, it's no biggie. I am curious though, since I don't want to cast my own bullets (money saving isn't an issue, this gun won't see a lot of rounds through it) is there a caliber to look for? Also, just how accurate are smoothbores (lack of sights is also fun)?

 

[Zonie]

I've got a couple months to decide, it's no biggie. I am curious though, since I don't want to cast my own bullets (money saving isn't an issue, this gun won't see a lot of rounds through it) is there a caliber to look for? Also, just how accurate are smoothbores (lack of sights is also fun)?

The size of the balls needed will depend on the caliber.
Typically, the ball will be .005 to .020 smaller than the bore size of the gun.

In the case of the .62 caliber gun, the nearest standard ball size is .600.

Here's a link to Dixie Gunworks which sells cast lead balls in that (and other) calibers:

Dixie Cast Balls

The reason the correct balls are undersize is they will need to be loaded in a cloth patch.
The patch must be made out of pure cotton. The modern cloth made out of polyesters will melt when the powder charge fires so they will not do.
The patch thickness should be .010 to .015 thick.
In the case of your smoothbore, the .010 to .012 thick material with the .600 diameter ball will produce a patched projectile that is the same as, or just slightly larger than the bore size. That should make loading fairly easy.

To load these pistols, you will also need to use real Black Powder. The new black powder replacement powders like Pyrodex and 777 will not ignite reliably in a flintlock. Only real Black Powder will provide positive ignition.
You may need to call around to various gunshops in your area to find one that carries real black powder as it is getting rather hard to find.
When you do find some, you can use either FFg or FFFg granulation size. For the limited shooting you intend to do, either will work as a priming powder for the pan.

The powder load is measured by Volume, so you will need something to measure it correctly.
Adjustable powder measures are available (form Dixie and elsewhere) and for a pistol like you are wanting, the powder load will be in the 30 to 45 grain volume range.

There is a lot of information about loading and shooting a flintlock available on this site, so I won't go into the fine points of that here.

I will say though that when you first take your pistol out to shoot it, you will have the following thoughts:

I sure hope I remembered to load this thing correctly.

OK, loaded and the pan's primed. Frizzen is closed. Full cock!

I bet it doesn't even fire.

(Grit your teeth, squint your eyes....pull the trigger)..BOOM!!!

"MY GOD!...It actually fired!!...It didn't hurt!!...Where's the powder, I have to do this again!!!!!...I wonder if it hit the target??"

How accurate is this type of gun??
Well, they were intended for really close combat against other men. Target guns they are not so, although some shooters can shoot them rather accurately you should feel really good about yourself if you can keep them hitting a 12 inch paper plate at 10 yards distance.
Even if you miss, I have a feeling that after you've fired 5 or 10 shots, you will be hooked on this great hobby.

zonie

 

[mykeal]

Frankly, zonie, my first time I would have been happy with hitting a good sized barn, broad side on. You pretty much hit the train of thought right on, except my language after the BOOM was a little more colorful. But yep, that's pretty much how it goes!

 

[Setzer77]

How's the quality of these pistols otherwise? Since I won't be purchasing until I get back, I could probably spend more than $300 on a pistol, but as long as the quality is good and it'll last me for years, I see no reason to pay more.

Oh yeah, I've read you'r supposed to use 4f in pan, 3f in the barrel, there much of a difference if I use 3f all around, considering the difficulty of getting black powder?

 

[FlintlockJonny]

haha.....did you guys hear that, he said he was new to muzzleloading and it's not a huge hobby. how soon do you think that will change? my guess is the first time he shoots his new flinty.
I wouldn't use 3f in the pan, just a little to coarse. I'm not sure if its actually possible, never tried it, but I'm sure the next post will have that answer! have fun and post pics!
setzer, not sure where you are from, but if you can find a Gander Mtn. they might have powder. The one in my neck of the woods has it. any local muzzleloading shop should have some though.

 

[torn moc]

Setzer.....I just noticed that you said you wanted a "rifled " barrel......
Well...be aware that the guns a Middlesex Village and Loyalist arms are SMOOTHBORE.

 

[Setzer77]

Well, rifled would have been ideal, but I don't really care that much. Smoothbore will function for my purposes as I highly doubt I'd find a rifled barrel pistol like the ones I want w/o paying out the....well, you know.

 

[torn moc]

You should check these out when you get RICH![url] http://www.ambroseantiques.com/fpistols.htm[/url]

VERY NICE

 

[Setzer77]

Hey, if I get rich, I'm getting an H&H royal double rifle in .700 nitro express (a single bullet costs typically $100, the rifle being about $260k). The flintlock must simply be of good quality to provide years of smoke and fire, with no expected accuracy, and a huge ball of lead smacking into the target.

 

[Zonie]

I guess I'll put in my two cents worth about priming the pan with 3F powder.

For years I primed with 3F and it worked just great.
Then I read about the wonders of using 4F in the pan, so I went out and bought myself a pound of it.

I honestly can not tell the difference. The pan flash with the 3F powder is just as fast and produces just as much fire as the 4F.

I might also add here that for over 100 years, the military used their main charge powder to prime the pan of their muskets and that powder was about the same as 2F or courser.

Then, I started reading about others experiences with 4F priming here on the Muzzleloading Forum.
Most folks either couldn't see any difference, or they had some rather bad experiences with the 4F.

Most of these bad experiences happened when they put the 4F powder in a dirty pan on a humid day and then waited a while before trying to fire their gun. To paraphrase what most of them said: "The dam stuff turned into soup!!!".

After hearing about this "soup" for some time, I decided to conduct a experiment with the 4F powder.
I posted the results here on the forum, but I'm not sure where. Anyway, the experiment showed that in a clean pan, subjected to 100 percent humidity for 12 hours, the powder still ignited.
The same 4F powder in a dirty pan subjected to the same conditions didn't really turn into soup, but it did get very wet looking and became a rather squishy lump that would not fire from repeated firing of the cock.
I didn't run the test with 3F powder, but I would guess that it also would become wet from the moisture picked up from the air by the pans fouling.

Anyway, I have no doubts that both 2F and 3F powder will work just fine for priming the pan in a good flintlock.

zonie

 

[mrbortlein]

Setzer,
Yeah, don't put 3f in the pan. The biggest thing to get used to with a flintlock is the time between the pan igniting and the charge going off. If you use 3f in the pan, it will take longer to ignite, if it wants to ignite at all. With what little experience I have with my flintlock pistol, your aim is much better with the 4f because you flintch after the charge has gone off and not during. As far as choosing between rifled or smoothbore, the smoothies look nicer but the rifled is more accurate. If I was to get a smooth bore it would be this Prussian Flintlock Cavalry Pistol ( 1731 Potzdam Model)

Available at[url] http://www.militaryheritage.com/pistol3.htm[/url]
As is, it's not fireable; no touch hole. Easily fixed with a quick trip to the gunsmith.
mrbortlein

 

[Setzer77]

Checked out the rest of their site, they've got the other kinds of pistols I'm looking at, for nearly the same price (slightly cheaper in this case). Are they a different manufacturer than the others, higher quality perhaps, or the same? If higher, how hard is it to get a hole drilled, I wouldn't be keen on sending the pistol off and waiting a couple weeks for a simple hole drill...

 

[torn moc]

heck....drill your own hole...
just tap it with a punch in the correct place and drill......Simple...