Lyman Deerstalker Custom Carbine LH .50 cal

[Wolf777]

Hello all,

I have been wanting to get into muzzleloading for awhile, but post Covid and a new season here in Montana made finding a LH muzzleloader a bit difficult. I was fortunate to find a local guy that was selling a left handed Lyman deerstalker for a reasonable price and jumped at the opportunity. The rifle looked in good shape and with a barrel light the rifling looked excellent. It was a bit shorter than I expected and had only one eyelet for the rod versus the two that I’ve seen on other deerstalkers.

So, my search for more information led me to gather the following information. This in actuality is a a Lyman Deerstalker custom carbine with a 21 inch octagon breech to round barrel and has a 1 in 24 inch twist versus the 1 in 48 inch twist I was expecting. Everything is in good shape with the exception of the rear folding sight which is loose and will not stay up when folded up and a clean out plug screw which is stripped.

The rear sight looks easy enough to replace with a 16B sight from midwayUSA. I’m assuming a simple punch on the side of the dovetail and some light tapping will remove the old sight and help set the new sight.

I’ve read that most guys don’t remove the clean out screw/plug. Is it even worth trying to tap and remove the stripped screw? I’m assuming it’s seized and it’s more a cosmetic thing anyways.

Finally, it looks like this twist and the gun itself were more designed for conicals. So, more than likely I was planning on starting out with the Hornady Great Plains Bullet. The only powder I’ve been able to find locally was pyrodex. Should I keep looking for black powder or just get what is available. And should I stick with 2F or go with 3F to start since it is a shorter barrel?

Finally I’m having a hell of a time finding caps. Is it worth it to get a mag spark so I can at least start shooting and figure out a load or spend more time and money to track down #11 caps?

Thanks for any information or knowledge about the gun or the above questions.

 

[Tasbay]

The so called clean out screw never needs to be removed for cleaning and shouldn`t be. Remove the nipple and pour a jug of boiling water down the barrel then clean while still hot. Substitute powder should be fine though I prefer real black and tend to just make my own.
If you cannot find caps buy a card or two of the red plastic toy ring caps for cap guns. Pick out the white insert from the back of the caps, sprinkle a small amount of powder into the back of the caps until about half full (again I normally use homemade black). Spray the powder with hair spray and let dry. These are now as good as bought percussion caps though need to be placed on the nipple with more care as quite volatile. If you use the toy caps carry a pin with you to remove the small plastic plug from the back of the nipple that sometimes sets itself in the nipple on firing.

 

[chorizo]

Or simplify your life: Get a M6x0.75 (which is the threading Italian made guns use) musket nipple as musket caps are readily available. Most of the online BP stores have them and if not Ebay does, usually at a bit of a premium. I have the 54 cal version that T/C makes, called the White Mountain Carbine. 2F works just fine, but your mileage may vary so it wouldn't hurt to try 3F. I use Triple 7. The Hornady GP HP-HB is a good bullet and should work in your fast twist quite well.

As the clean out screw is already gooned up, just skip dealing with it. Nice to have and use, not worth drilling and re-tapping

For example, some 4 wing musket caps that I use. I rather prefer RWS, but these have worked fine for me.
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...ariant=40271864103121#shopify-product-reviews

 

[Stykbow]

I’ll add that Pyrodex will work just fine.

 

[ElkStalker]

That is a great rifle. It will shoot the Hornady GP 385gr very well. I would caution against using this bullet for elk. Great deer bullet, but for elk I’d look at the No Excuses bullets or other solid nose, flat base bullets. Track of the Wolf has the proper 6x75 musket cap nipples for your rifle. I put one on my Lyman GPR and it works very well. Musket caps have been a lot easier to find. This will hold you over until you can stock up on #11 caps, if you choose. Buffalo Arms and Powder Valley will have Scheutzen powders.

 

[chorizo]

Concur on the great Plains bullet. Expands way too rapidly and may not give you the penetration you want on elk. I posted a Pic of one on another thread that was shot into a bank at 25 yards.. The expansion was dramatic.

 

[ElkStalker]

Concur on the great Plains bullet. Expands way too rapidly and may not give you the penetration you want on elk. I posted a Pic of one on another thread that was shot into a bank at 25 yards.. The expansion was dramatic.


View attachment 185980
View attachment 185981

That is impressive expansion. That is one heck of a deer dropper!

 

[Wolf777]

Thank you all for the responses, and some of the work arounds that I had not found or thought of as well as some information on the bullet. I do intend to chase elk at some point, and do appreciate the feedback. I will likely hunt with a round that can kill deer or elk as they typically overlap in my hunting areas.

Since that got brought up, would you expect lethal range with a 420 gr no excuses to be around 100-125 yards maximum, or would it just be worth tracking down a chronograph and working up the energy when I get a load worked up. I don't really expect to take long shots as I'm used to hunting thick covers and almost of my rifle kills are 75 yards or less (most being 25-50 yards) over the last decade in Western Montana (No stranger to hunting and working in close to game).

 

[ElkStalker]

125 yds is a good max range limit. If you put the slug where it needs to go at 125yds, the critter is t going to live long. There are videos of Idaho Lewis shooting steel out to 1200yds with a fast twist and heavy connical. I personally limit my elk hunting range to 100yds right now. I’m in a very similar situation here in North Idaho. I am a till working on finding a conical that my 1:48 twist Renegade shoots well. But with a conical, i sight in for 100, this way if I am off a little on my ranging and the animal is 120yds, it’s still going to hit vitals.

 

[chorizo]

@Wolf777 I suspect that the 420gr No Excuses bullet will work just fine for both deer and elk if you can find an accurate load (4" group or less at 100 yards) with a MV of at least 1575 fps if you hold your distant to 125 yards or less. It would be preferable to have 1100 ftlbs of energy for elk. 100 grains of T7 2F will get you close at 125 yards, for example. See the ballistics and T7 loading data attached. I recommend an oversized (54 cal) over-powder wad to achieve these velocities and to help prevent leading with these hot loads.

Mind you this is a STOUT load. If you hold your distance to 100 yards, you can get away with a slightly more shoulder friendly load with slightly less powder.

As for 2F vs 3F...I shoot carbines too. 21" 50 cal, 21" 54cal and 24" 54cal I have not experimented between the two, but I will be doing so. I am unsure if it will make a difference. I will be experimenting with a T/C White Mountain Carbine (like your gun) in 54cal 21" 1:38 twist with a 485 gr No Excuses solid with over-powder wad for next year. My goal is 1450-1475 fps MV with commensurate accuracy to make it a solid 125 yard gun with 1300 ftlbs of energy at 125 yards that will give me a through and through wound channel at 125 yards even with hitting bones.

Here is a 375 gr solid in 54 cal at 1620 fps mv that I used to harvest an elk at 85 yards this year....it broke a solid leg bone in the shoulder and lodged between ribs under the skin on far side. Destroyed the heart and passed through the bottom of both lungs. Stone dead 20 yards from where shot.

I hope between @ElkStalker and my examples these will give you a decent starting point.

 

[Wolf777]

Thank you both. It definitely gives me a starting point and helps affirm some of my thinking. I’m not opposed to stout loads. I’m a big guy in my thirties, I can take some punishment. I will really be intrigued to see what you are able to accomplish with a 21” barrel. Hope I catch your posts when you do. I don’t know if it’s actually capable of velocities to make it to your energy requirement at 125 yards. Fingers crossed. I’ll push mine but given my lack of experience I probably will stay far enough from the edge to push it too hard.

 

[chorizo]

I will make sure I tag you. I think a 110 to 110 grains of ffg or fffg will do the job nicely to get me to that speed and I am not opposed to 120 grains if need be as I will be shooting mine out of a 54 cal 1" ATF barrel ,,,,,the velocity is achievable. The accuracy might be another thing altogether. Higher velocity from peak pressures is more achievable with larger volume loads in a 54cal than a 50 cal.....more surface space to burn the powder more quickly. It is my supposition that higher velocities in larger caliber carbines are easier to achieve for that reason....bore diameter is compensating for barrel length to achieve a more complete burn.

I have reinforced my stock to help prevent stock issues which are prevalent in some of these guns. Your gun might be too, so before you shoot some stout loads check out this thread. It may equally apply to your lyman:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/tc-white-mountain-carbine.155939/

 

[Wolf777]

Thanks Chorizo. I have seen where people recommend properly bedding the gun for shooting conicals. Especially with heavy loads. I wish I knew more about the history of the gun as it’s 30 years old and has seen some rounds. I am trying to figure out how much I can push my 50 cal carbine. I’m assuming 90 grains will be about the top end.