lyman question

[shdwlkr]

Just wondering if this is a wide spread issue or not I ran across this on another board I am on and curious as to just how bad the issue really is


Lyman quality control heads up!

Not sure whats with lyman lately, but already we've seen on here where one barrel/breech split right in half and could have injured or killed the shooter due to poor quality control.

This popped on facebook where the guy was having pure hell getting a GPR flinter to fire off reliably. He found a still attached chunk of metal blocking inside the breech area.

"A friend was having trouble with a new Lyman miss firing,we put a new RMC touch hole liner in, helped a little, drilled the touch hole with a # 52 drill help even more but it just wasn't right. I decided to use a modified breech scraper in the Patented Breech and found a small piece/burr from the threading of the touch hole was down in the patented breech blocking the powder from getting to the touch hole.Got the metal piece out after a little working it back and forth to get it to come lose,and now the gun fires fast every time.So if anyone is having trouble,I would look into this.Just a case of poor workmanship on the part of Lyman."

Now a member over at my place has been having issues with his GPR stock as well. He wasnt happy with the sloppy metal to wood fit and to top it off, a crack in the stock. He got the ok from lyman to send it in for replacement. Low and behold, he gets the rifle back and they did not do a thing to it! same stock and everything!

Lyman agreed to send him a replacement stock this time and he could do the work since he was not happy with the first go around. He got it and boy oh boy! Its really worse than the first! Not cool considering the tang screw goes through this area, or close by this area.


Replacement stock ( #3 is currently on the way )
When it comes to buying a new sidelock, you may want to reconsider lyman. The quality has greatly dropped over the past 5+ years. Now we are seeing barrel failures, stocks cracking, huge chunks of metal being left inside the barrels. This is not good.

 

[bigted]

No attempt to defend poor workmanship however with the popularity of this rifle in the recent past im sure the demand has upped their game a bit as far as quantity is concerned and this hardly ever works out for the customers best interest.

Be interesting to see the numbers of guns delivered versus problems experienced. This is the bottom line that a company stays in touch with, the percentage needs to fall into an acceptable number and as the quantity raises this percentage needs to fall into a smaller number just to keep public opinion on their side. However i see this view from these company's get cloudy as the money rolls in from a higher demand.

More is the shame as this is a hugely popular beginners rifle as well as experienced shooters as well looking for a budget priced rifle.

 

[Zonie]

Not sure whats with lyman lately, but already we've seen on here where one barrel/breech split right in half and could have injured or killed the shooter due to poor quality control.

I have never heard about a Lyman GPR barrel failing if the powder load was black powder (or a synthetic BP).

The only times I've heard of a muzzleloading barrel failing the way you describe is when someone used smokeless powder in it.

Do you have any documented source for the failure that verifies that the right powder was used?

I'm not interested in a, "A friend of a friend of Bob's said he saw a guys gun blow up." sort of thing.

 

[bigted]

Kinda in Zonies camp on this

 

[silly goose]

Sometimes when folks knock something they are just trying to justify their own choices. A burr could be overlooked anywhere.

 

[1950DAVE]

Had my GPR for several (5+) years . Built from a kit I've not really had any of the problems that a lot of people seem to be swamped with. Being the only gun I have built and the only flint I have ever shot I find most everything about mine to be top notch.
Just my Nicole for what that's worth.
DAVE

 

[smo]

Just wondering if this is a wide spread issue or not I ran across this on another board I am on and curious as to just how bad the issue really is


Lyman quality control heads up!

Not sure whats with lyman lately, but already we've seen on here where one barrel/breech split right in half and could have injured or killed the shooter due to poor quality control.

This popped on facebook where the guy was having pure hell getting a GPR flinter to fire off reliably. He found a still attached chunk of metal blocking inside the breech area.

"A friend was having trouble with a new Lyman miss firing,we put a new RMC touch hole liner in, helped a little, drilled the touch hole with a # 52 drill help even more but it just wasn't right. I decided to use a modified breech scraper in the Patented Breech and found a small piece/burr from the threading of the touch hole was down in the patented breech blocking the powder from getting to the touch hole.Got the metal piece out after a little working it back and forth to get it to come lose,and now the gun fires fast every time.So if anyone is having trouble,I would look into this.Just a case of poor workmanship on the part of Lyman."

Now a member over at my place has been having issues with his GPR stock as well. He wasnt happy with the sloppy metal to wood fit and to top it off, a crack in the stock. He got the ok from lyman to send it in for replacement. Low and behold, he gets the rifle back and they did not do a thing to it! same stock and everything!

Lyman agreed to send him a replacement stock this time and he could do the work since he was not happy with the first go around. He got it and boy oh boy! Its really worse than the first! Not cool considering the tang screw goes through this area, or close by this area.


Replacement stock ( #3 is currently on the way )
When it comes to buying a new sidelock, you may want to reconsider lyman. The quality has greatly dropped over the past 5+ years. Now we are seeing barrel failures, stocks cracking, huge chunks of metal being left inside the barrels. This is not good.

I have noticed fit issues on some of the newer GPR's.

Drilling the touch hole and leaving a small sliver of metal attached is aggravating and could be a hard to find issue. However it doesn't make it a bad gun.

The big picture I've seen is with the Quality Control department.

I would not buy a new one today without going over it with a fine tooth comb... :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Now we are seeing barrel failures, stocks cracking, huge chunks of metal being left inside the barrels. This is not good.

Thompson center had recalls
CVA had recalls
Almost every modern manufacturer of cartridge guns has had recalls.

Investarms, the maker of Lyman rifles, has to my knowledge never had a recall...

A barrel blowing up is irrelevant without a cause...Most causes are operator error.

A cracked stock can happen after it leaves the manufacturer.. Sending it to Lyman isn't the manufacturer.
That chunk of Metal in the barrel was a burr from drilling the touch hole...it is common, it's also why you don't use a breech scraper on a patent breech, cause you can bend the burr over the flash hole.

One of the most important factors when buying a gun isn't the maker, but rather the seller. Guns can sit in inventory in a warehouse for years.. Subject to all kinds of abuse.

 

[rdstrain49]

Last year it was time to retire ole faithful. I got a Lyman GPR 50 cal. She has been a bit of a witch to get to shoot well at 100 yards but is coming along. Wood to metal fit is fair, lots of proud wood. She is sure not pretty but does shoot well and is improving and is absolutely reliable. Won't ever be my favorite rifle but I sure won't be getting rid of her.

 

[jamieorr]

I bought a trade rifle sight unseen three years ago, it is well put together, no cracks or gaps, shot well right out of the box. I'd buy another tomorrow.

Jamie

 

[pa woods roamer]

I have a lefty Lyman GPR, in Percussion, that I bought 20 Years ago. Absolutely no problems. Bought a .50 Cl lefty Flintlock GPR and was nothing but trouble. Sent the Lock in three times for repairs and they finally sent me a new Lock. Then the Triggers went bad, which they replaced. Finally gave it to My son. I recently bought a Flintlock Lyman Trade Rifle and it has been a joy ever since I got it out of the Box !! So, I guess it is just might be a crap shoot ??

 

[Scott_C]

My first muzzleloader was a .54cal Great Plains half-stock percussion back in 1989. It's proven to be a fine shooter all these years, and hopefully many more to come.

 

[shdwlkr]

Jim that is one of the reasons I posted what I found is to find out if individuals who know and use muzzle loaders a lot had run into this issue. Over the years I have had several muzzle loaders all of the TC verity and none have not been good to me. I also wonder what some folks think they can put in a bp firearm. Case in point I keep reading where Ruger used smokeless powder to test the ruger old army black powder pistol and ruger even stated that you could use fg-ffffg black powder so what does it matter what the proof load was. I prefer to use black powder or substitutes in black powder firearms and almost never use max charge as I have never found them to be accurate.

Thanks to all who responded to my post

 

[Zonie]

Rugers Old Army was made using high strength alloy steel, fully heat treated like the other pistols they make.

Their testing of smokeless powder or 4F powder has no bearing at all on the strength of the reproduction guns made by other companies.

A few years ago, Savage also made a modern muzzle loader that they said could use smokeless powder.

After a few of these exploded they retracted their comments and quit making the rifles.

As I said, I have never heard of a Lyman GPR or any other Lyman gun barrel blowing up unless it was loaded with smokeless powder.

If you have heard otherwise, it would be interesting to know where the information is.

 

[Walks with fire]

I purchased a Lyman Deerstalker in .54 1/48 twist and later purchased a new Trade rifle barrel that was on clearance sale that drops right in. The fit and finish was good and the lock is pretty good. The single trigger has no creep and is a smooth light pull. It shoots well and the sights align well both horizontal and vertical. I really have no complains with it so far.

I am getting 2" groups at 50 yards benched so far with 80/90 grain loads. It will throw a ragged hole with 60 grains though. Bought new for under 400 bucks a couple years back. No complaints really. I think it will tune in a little better over time.

 

[Ames]

The only problem I had 5 years ago was a .54. I just didn't like the wood they used for the stock. Looked bad, not at all like walnut. Sent the whole gun back as they agreed to look n a few boxes to find one with a better look to it.
Good gun, I'm just overly picky about wood.

 

[Jim Evans]

I purchased a Lyman Deerstalker in .54 1/48 twist

I am getting 2" groups at 50 yards benched so far with 80/90 grain loads. It will throw a ragged hole with 60 grains though.

Walk With Fire
What patch does your rifle like? and have you tried 70 gr yet ?

 

[shdwlkr]

Jim
Do you have any proof that they heat treated the ROA as I have heard that they did not.
As I said before if it is a bp firearm I will use only bp in it.
That Savage rifle was a mistake from the beginning Remington made a similar one and never said anything but bp should be used

 

[Kansas Jake]

Anyone who has spent a minimal amount of time reloading smokeless cartridges knows how critical a very small change in the amount of powder can be. Having a muzzleloader loaded with smokeless is just asking for a bomb a few inches from your face.

BP or in some instances a substitute only for me and hopefully for anyone else who is shooting near me with a muzzleloader.

 

[BrownBear]

This from the owner's manual is the closest I could come to any reference to heat treatment. Makes me believe it happened, but the words aren't specific to heat treatment:

GENERAL INFORMATION AND MECHANICAL CHARACTERISTICS

The RUGER® OLD ARMY® percussion revolver is an original Ruger design and is manufactured to our regular standards of strength and reliability, entirely in modern Ruger factories in the U.S.A. The best quality steels and coil springs are used throughout, the same as in our centerfire cartridge revolvers. Stainless steel nipples are standard and grip panels are genuine American Walnut.

The mechanism of the “Old Army” has been carefully designed to retain traditional handling and firing characteristics of the old-time “cap and ball” revolvers while at the same time incorporating improvements (U.S. and Foreign Patents) which mark the first significant advance in percussion revolver construction in more than a century.