• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

M. Avance Fowler 20 gauge

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
948
Reaction score
1,337
I picked up this Matt Avance .62/20 gauge Fowler today at Dixon’s. The 36” barrel caught my eye since I like them a bit short. Some dings in the metal and a blued finish that is too dark/modern looking(?) for my liking. Some minor damage to wood where 2 pins go through under barrel. Maple stock, sling and swivels. If I keep this I’ll lighten up the metal finish to a lighter grey perhaps. I’m going to shoot her in the morning. I have Goex FF, .60 balls, 7.5 shot, different patches and overshot and nitro cards, fiber wads etc. I’ll start with ball since I have front and rear sights. I’ll take any suggestions on a starting load please. Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2231.jpeg
    IMG_2231.jpeg
    5.2 MB
  • IMG_2232.jpeg
    IMG_2232.jpeg
    2.4 MB
  • IMG_2236.jpeg
    IMG_2236.jpeg
    1.6 MB
  • IMG_2238.jpeg
    IMG_2238.jpeg
    1.1 MB
  • IMG_2234.jpeg
    IMG_2234.jpeg
    3.1 MB
  • IMG_2235.jpeg
    IMG_2235.jpeg
    1.7 MB
  • IMG_2239.jpeg
    IMG_2239.jpeg
    845.6 KB
Do you know what barrel was used?
My TVM Early Virginia smoothrifle has what I believe is a Rice 20 gauge barrel.
Best two roundball loads for me have been 65 or 80 grains 3f, thin card, lubed felt wad (my own lube, not "branded" storebought), .610 ball, two thin cards. Either charge shoots this combo well. The 65 grain charge also shoots well with a .010 patched .595 ball, and decently with a paper cartridge leaving the paper around the ball. Seeing as you have 2f, I would try 70 or 75 grains. My standard is less than 4 inch groups at 50 yards off the bench. A load doesn't get tested if it doesn't shoot under 3, closer to 2 inches off the bench at 25 yards.
Shot loads..... unless you plan to experiment with the Skychief load, ditch the nitro cards and thick fiber "cushion" wads.
My squirrel and pheasant load is about 60 grains 3f, two thin cards, lubed wadding (either felt or faux-tow depending on my mood), 1oz (just use a 70 grain powder measure) #5 shot, two thin cards. I probably wouldn't even adjust for the 3f/2f difference until I shot some pattern paper.
There are dozens or more topic threads and posts on 20 gauge smoothbore loads, go read them,,, but only the 1st page, they all digress into arguing about bs. Read all of @Britsmoothy posts in the hunting section, pay special attention to his wad and lube usage. He may do things that are somewhat nonstandard,,, but he gets results and posts those results,, and seems to get out killing critters far more than most of us. I believe it is @Sparkitoff that has also been getting a lot of smoothbore shot shooting in the past season or two with good effect.
Pay attention to people's other posts, do they have any topics of their own sharing things they've learned and the experiences they learned them through, do they give an example of the standard they are holding or just saying, "this shoots good for me"? "Good" is relative and subjective.
 
Excellent post! Thank you! I’ve been going through some of the posts and have some good starting points. I have plenty 3F as well so I can try that as well. Thank you again!

PS not sure of the barrel maker until I get the guts to pull it.
 
I'm a fan of the skychief load in my cylinder bore. Powder, nitro card, shot, thin over shot card then a sopping wet oily fiber cushion wad on top. With this load you never have to swab during a shooting session and it even makes easy to clean the bore when you get home. Added bonus if you use olive oil to soak the cushion wad and make the whole range smell delicious when you shoot.
 
You may find it different, but have found 80 to 95 grains of powder under a roundball the most accurate. For ‘best’ pattern with shot, start with matching powder and shot by volume. The so called square load. Maybe start at 60 or 70 grains of powder and work up from there. Your gun will tell you what it likes.
 
I put about 7 shots down range at about 23 yards standing and was pleasantly surprised with my first efforts. 70 grains Goex FF, .012 ticking with Dixon’s patch lube (tallow, bear oil, etc) and .600 ball. First shot hit dead center and the rest showed promise. I did not bench it yet because I just wanted to get familiar with her. I was getting some failures to fire where the pan charge didn’t ignite, so I replaced the stubby flint with a new French amber. She then fired consistently albeit with a slight delay. Load development will tighten up groups and fix the slight hang fire I am certain. This is my first smooth bore and I cannot be any happier. Loading was a breeze even after the bore was fouled. I’m hooked on smooth bores. I’ll try shot next time as well.

IMG_2241.jpeg
 
Excellent post! Thank you! I’ve been going through some of the posts and have some good starting points. I have plenty 3F as well so I can try that as well. Thank you again!

PS not sure of the barrel maker until I get the guts to pull it.
If it’s an older build, it may be a Long Hammock barrel. I have a fowler made by TVM in 2004 with a Long Hammock barrel that shoots great with 60g 2f and a lubed wonder wad under a .595 ball wrapped in .018 pillow tick patch. Flintleather
 
I put about 7 shots down range at about 23 yards standing and was pleasantly surprised with my first efforts. 70 grains Goex FF, .012 ticking with Dixon’s patch lube (tallow, bear oil, etc) and .600 ball. First shot hit dead center and the rest showed promise. I did not bench it yet because I just wanted to get familiar with her. I was getting some failures to fire where the pan charge didn’t ignite, so I replaced the stubby flint with a new French amber. She then fired consistently albeit with a slight delay. Load development will tighten up groups and fix the slight hang fire I am certain. This is my first smooth bore and I cannot be any happier. Loading was a breeze even after the bore was fouled. I’m hooked on smooth bores. I’ll try shot next time as well.

View attachment 306136
Excellent. I'm glad it went so well for you.
Don't be afraid to try looser ball/patch combos,,, or no patch. Rifle rules and "common knowledge" or general rifle wisdom, get thrown out the window with smoothbores.

What were you using for priming powder?
When I use 3f (same as my main charge) I find that "less is more" and too much slows things down.
 
I used 2F for the main charge but primed with 3F. I forgot I brought 4F until I was packing to leave. I’ll be experimenting plenty with different powder, different size ball and patches. I do like how easy my combo of .600 ball and .012 patching went down the fouled barrel. Thanks again everyone for all you do for this great community.
IMG_2244.jpeg
 
If it’s an older build, it may be a Long Hammock barrel. I have a fowler made by TVM in 2004 with a Long Hammock barrel that shoots great with 60g 2f and a lubed wonder wad under a .595 ball wrapped in .018 pillow tick patch. Flintleather
Great info! I’ll confirm when I eventually pull the barrel. Thanks!
 
I used 2F for the main charge but primed with 3F. I forgot I brought 4F until I was packing to leave. I’ll be experimenting plenty with different powder, different size ball and patches. I do like how easy my combo of .600 ball and .012 patching went down the fouled barrel. Thanks again everyone for all you do for this great community.
View attachment 306246
I mostly prime with 3f. I will use 4f at the range for load development, but practice and hunt with 3f prime.
Also,,, I wipe the pan with an alcohol swab after every shot.
 
I also have a 20 ga smoothbore from Matt at TVM. I ordered it with a rear sight that has made shooting ball very satisfying. I shoot 3-shot groups at 50 yards that average under 3" with a prb load. It's not very picky about powder charge and does well with anything from 60 grains to 75 grains of 3F. Still, 70 grains seems to be about as good as I can get for a hunting load. The PRB load is 60 grns 3F for targets and 70 to 75 grns for hunting with ball. I load a .600" ball & a lubed .012" patch. With a "bare ball" load (powder, fiber or felt wad & card wad on top) I seat the ball & wads together as one unit down on the powder. The bare ball load usually does about 4"afor 3-shots and 5" for 5-shots pretty consistently.

I no longer hunt but did hunt deer with the smoothbore very successfully.
The target on the left is with my bare ball load (2-3/4"); on the right is with a prb (1-3/4") both at 50 yds.
DSC00453.jpg

A 75 grain load IIRC.
PICT0586-2-1.jpg

The barrel is 38".
Digital-Still-Camera.jpg
 
I’m not much of a paper shooter as most of my shooting is steel targets…woods walks and plinking which i find way more fun. My main load was 70gr 2F goex, .010 or .015 pillow ticking(lube of choice) and .600 rb. Last year i change it up to 60gr 2F goex, .017/.018 pillow ticking and .595 rb. Both loads work well and ofcourse when i do my part…the steel rings. I have alao shot bare ball with .610 with wads that shot just as well. There’s no wrong way to do it. Find what works and have fun. Also if i get myself to shoot paper it will help me to be a better shot but there is still the nut behind the butt plat that needs more help!
 
Congratulations on your find. TVM makes good solid guns. I have thousands of shots out of my .50 rifled Early Virginia. It is my "go to" match rifle. I have had a couple of TVM Smoothbores, too, and they all were solid, dependable performers. If you have the vent liner with the hex head opening, remember to prick your charge and then tap your side plate gently. Faster ignition.

ADK Bigfoot
 
Congratulations on your find. TVM makes good solid guns. I have thousands of shots out of my .50 rifled Early Virginia. It is my "go to" match rifle. I have had a couple of TVM Smoothbores, too, and they all were solid, dependable performers. If you have the vent liner with the hex head opening, remember to prick your charge and then tap your side plate gently. Faster ignition.

ADK Bigfoot
I do have the hex head opening and will absolutely try that for my slow ignition issue. Thanks!!!
 
Back
Top