Machine or hand

[BJC]

I have been playing with my Renegade and I have been sanding parts to brown them.

I also bought and just received a traditional back sight but it was cast and it still has cast lines on it.

After a log time of trying to sand the cast lines out I decided to just get my Dremel Tool out and grind off the cast line.

My question is.....

How many here use hand tools only and how many use power tools also.

I regret using a power tool as they were never used in the past.

How many stick to using hand tools only?

Is it a no-no in this sport to use power tools?

I don't even want to use belt sanders in the future. I want my bench to be hand tools only. Can this be done?

 

[Col. Batguano]

Hand tools mostly, but certain power tools have their place too. For instance, a drill press can be invaluable for drilling tang and lock bolts, BP holes etc.

A power hand drill is handy for BP holes in the stock, dremels can be used, but they have few places near a stock. They can get away from you and do a lot of damage in a hurry. Thus, if I use one at all it's only for hogging out lock internals.

Occasionally I'll use a random orbital sander to level off wood and metal stock inlays too.

A lot of guys use power pneumatic engravers too.

 

[Artificer]

If you have not already done so, learning to file by hand is not only part of the historic gunsmith/machinist trades, but still is quite important today. For example I would reach for a file/s to get rid of most smaller casting lines, as on the rear sight you mentioned, though I have used a "Dremel Tool on Steroids" for some larger casting lines/gates before I started using files.

Gus

 

[BJC]

I remember when I was in Machining class that my teacher taught me how to measure with a file.

He told me to get a block of steel. He then told me to get a file and file on the block 20 times. He then told me to measure and see how much I removed with my 20 strokes. He then told me to once again file the block of steel 20 time at about the same amount of pressure and then measure again. It once again removed the same amount of steel as the last time.

I then learned that if I stroke the file over a block of specific steel 20 times that I would remove about .0008 of an inch so if my block was 2 inches thick and I needed to make it 1.964" I would then know how many strokes it would take to get me there.

So my file then became a measuring devise.

 

[Mickc01]

That's the kind of tip you get from experienced teachers. Thanks for sharing, I have never thought to do that. :thumbsup:

 

[galamb]

When I build a rifle I study the snot out of the original gunsmith/builder often including details of their life (not just the guns they built) - because it interests me.

I try and find parts (because I don't make my own and have no interest) that most closely resembles what they used and within my ability, try and tweak them to look more like what was on the original rifle.

But during the actual construction I don't "personally" feel the need to build using the same technology that was available in 1790, 1830 or whatever - I love my power tools.

Yes, I can go at the stock with a rasp, files, scrapers etc and I do - I really like the woodworking part of rifle building (as opposed to the metal work), but I'm working on the wrist area as an example and I can save six or seven hours by doing the rough shaping with the spindle sander, I flick the switch

In using my power tools which also includes a Dremel (have one of those wand things (flex shaft), so hang the dremel and use the little hand piece) I don't feel that I'm "cheating" on the build.

For me the fidelity of the "appearance" of the finished product is what's important - not the method in which I got that look.

But "I'M" ok with that and I wouldn't suggest to someone that feels they have to use 18th century files to keep things "authentic" that they are doing something wrong or un-necessary. HC means different things to different people.

 

[Vaino]

I mainly use hand tools, but power tools do come in handy at times. On metal parts a file is used and I can't think of any operations on metal parts where I use a power tool....except for squaring up of metal sheets on the disk sander.

I do use a drill press for drilling most of the holes but also use an electric hole shooter for certain holes.

Whether one wants to emulate a builder of yore and strictly use only hand tools, is the choice of the builder. Many times I get the job done w/ only a file and it's faster than any power tool.

My shop consists of a bench grinder, a 12" disk sander and a self standing drill press... also a Dremel and a hole shooter complete my electric tools.

But one more "electric tool" that I definitely can't do w/o, are my electric shop and bench lights.....have never considered doing gun work under oil or kereosene lamps, although I did locate my shop's windows to the south.

The "purists" who want to emulate the "builders of yore" by not using electricity are to be complimented but then no exceptions should be allowed.....sunshine and oil lamps will do.....Fred

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I don't tend to be any faster with power tools than I am with hand tools, save for a drill press. I find my work with hand tools is more precise and more satisfying to do. I also think it yields a more authentic feeling product.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Hand tools and even a sand stone rock will work. But myself I use whatever tool I have available that will do the best job. While I have "cleaned up " flattened nipples on trail shoots with a sand stone rock that was handy, In my shop I will use my dremel , Bridge port, drill press, lathe, sanders, or grinders as needed. :idunno:

 

[hoochiepapa]

My friend Joe went to the gunsmithing school in Trinidad. He told me that his first project was to file a steel block into a perfect cube. Later on, he was to inlet a stock using only a file.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I use a power drill followed by hand taps for buttoning up, and a drill press for my tennons. I am not confident enough in my skills to use power tools for anything else.

A good set of nicholson files and swiss files are essential to own. you will want to use the swiss files to clean up smaller parts such as your sights.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Is it a no-no in this sport to use power tools?

A coworker of mine once commented on The New Yankee Workshop that he would be able to make fancy furniture if he had all of Norm Abram's expensive power tools, to which I responded: "no, you would just make mistakes faster"....

the only area I can think of where power tools would be forbidden is when some master gun makers are commissioned to build a rifle using only period tools/materials, which is incredibly rare.

I also use a power drill for drilling through metal parts for the wood screws and to countersink the metal parts; I use a hand crank to drill into wood

I also use a drill press for the th...basically: I only use a power drill or drill press...

 

[Eterry]

To quote a friend of mine, "If Daniel Boone had owned a Winnebago he'd have used it."
I have nothing but respect for those who want to use vintage tools and techniques to build a ML, but I personally use lots of electric lights, magnifiers, and power tools where applicable. I feel the gunsmith of old would've used power tools given a choice.
We used an end mill to cut the barrel channel in a cpl hours one afternoon and Ken scared the life out of me when he grabbed an air grinder and chucked up a huge ball grinder to
shape the stock blank. But no worries, it came out fine and I finally started breathing again.

 

[Onojutta]

The original gunsmiths may have used power tools if they had them, but then they wouldn't have been making flintlock muzzleloaders either. :hmm:

For me the pleasure of this hobby comes from learning to master and use hand tools. Hand tools provide that intimacy you don't get with power tools. And there is something organically gratifying about accomplishing a job by hand. That is missing in modern society.

The occasional power tool does come in handy from time to time though, because let's face it the original gunsmiths had a lot more time at their disposal than we do. If I were building to make money or for someone else I'd be looking to take advantage of power tools much more.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

disclaimer: only click link if you are sitting down, are cleared by a physician as being in good health, and are prepared to have your mind completely blown

Classical American Build (no power tools, carved from blank, all parts and barrel made from complete scratch):
http://www.housebrothersproject.com/home.html

 

[LRB]

It's a nice gun, but Wallace Gusler did the same thing about 40 years ago, and many others have since him. Something to bear in mind. Many or even most American gun makers in the 18th c. worked from imported locks, and even pretty often, imported cast furniture. Much the same as most makers do today.

 

[Doug Lykins]

A drill press, variable speed hand drill, 12" disc sander, a jig saw to cut the profile of the butt plate and occasionally a dremel tool are the only power tools I use. If I had another power tool that I thought would be useful, I'd use it. Here's an old video of Wallace Gusler :bow: building a rifle using historically correct tools and methods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lui6uNPcRPA
If I had to go through all of this to build a gun, I could not and would not do it. :surrender:

 

[Vaino]

This topic is an academic one....because no matter what tools are used in the making of say a flintlock LR, the final product won't reveal exactly what tools were used... viewedfrom the outside. When disassembled, the experienced eye will know, but unless one has contracted for a completely hand built LR using only tools found in the time of the particular gun, what difference does it make?

Many owners of MLers choose factory guns and are satisfied, while others choose semi or fully custom made guns that were made using some modern electric tools....they're also satisfied. I don't think it matters at all w/ the exception noted above......Fred

 

[Col. Batguano]

Bravo Fred!

It's the road you choose to get to your destination. You can walk, and take the most scenic route (hand tools and methods), drive (use modern tools and equipment) or take the molecular transporter (and buy it all finished for you). It all depends on what you're after the most, the trip, or the destination. For most, they're interested in both.

 

[M. De Land]

I use both hand tools , lathes ,milling machines , drill presses TIG welders etc.
Why spend hours filing flats on a barrel say, that will only be approximately equidistant or filing a dovetail that you can throw a coon hound under when held up to light in the corners or shoulder rather than milling them clean ,sharp and accurate.
Each to his own but don't think for a minute great grandpa wouldn't have used some modern tools were they available to him.
That being said I use files and chisels far more than power machinery and have my walls lined with them.