Today I cast 80 conical alloy lead free bullets just fine, but when I switched to lead conicals nothing worked. I cleaned the mold with solvent, smoked the mold and waxed the mold pivot points and the connection bumps, but none of the lead conicals were satisfactory. They were deformed. Next thing I noticed was that because I cranked up the heat for the lead, the top of the molten metal turned to brown gunk. I turned down the temperature and it still wouldn't cast. When I put the lead in there was a slight amount of bismuth tin left in the pot. Not much, not even enough for a bullet. What's going on? I kept the mold heated too.
Major problem casting
- Thread starter Erik550c
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First off I'd re-clean your mold real good. Would also be sure your casting pot is absent of all traces of any other alloy's.Erik550c said:
As far as the temp is concerned, pure lead is going to produce dross on top of your melt. You can just skim it off before casting. Some clean the lead some don't. I usually clean mine by dropping a pea size piece of paraffin wax in the pot. It will produce a small fire on top of your melt. I scrape the bottom, sides of the pot and the impurities will float to the top of your lead. I just skim that off. Others use sawdust to clean their lead too!
Next, you want to have a high lead temp to cast with. Every body casts at what temp works or fills out their mold the best for them. Personally I cast at 800 degrees.
You want to make sure your mold is hot, your lead is hot, and your ladle is also hot.
When everything is up to temp it usually takes about 4 seconds for your lead to solidify in your mold. I usually poor a small puddle above the sprue hole about the size of a dime. This allows the lead in the mold to suck up the lead needed to completely form your conical or ball.
Just try to get yourself a steady casting rhythm going and be consistant in everything you are doing.
Respectfully, Cowboy
Billnpatti
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Erik,
Tell us about the deformation. How are they deformed? Do the bullets have fins on the sides where the mold comes together? That usually means that you have come sort of crud on the face of the halves of the mold that is keeping it from sealing. Does the base of your bullet have a dimple in it? That means that you are not pouring a puddle of lead on the sprue hole and as the lead cools, it is sucking down into the mold. It needs a puddle of lead on the sprue hole to prevent that. Cowboy mentioned that in his posting. If the bullet looks all wrinkled, that usually means that your lead is not hot enough. or your mold is not hot enough yet. If it is the mold being too cool, just pre-heat it longer. Place one corner of the mold in the molten lead and let it heat up. If you remove the mold and a chunk of lead clings to it, it is too cool. If you remove it and it leaves a solid place in the lead in your pot, again, you mold is not hot enough. When the mold is hot enough, it will not do either of these things. Always clean and smoke your mold before casting. Lube your mold hinge and sprue plate hinge with a tiny bit bees wax, NEVER paraffin. Do not let the bees wax get into the mold cavity. Sometimes you may have to re-smoke it as you are casting. Smoking is not a "one and done" process, you need to smoke the mold as often as it needs it.
If the lead is hot enough, your dipper, if you use one, is hot enough, the mold is clean and smoked and hot enough and you pour a little extra lead on the sprue hole and let it solidify before opening the mold, and your lead has been fluxed with a little bit of paraffin or other organic material and the dross skimmed off you should have no problems. Fluxing is another thing you may have to do more than once as you cast. Flux and skim your lead anytime you see crud forming on the top of your lead.
Tell us about the deformation. How are they deformed? Do the bullets have fins on the sides where the mold comes together? That usually means that you have come sort of crud on the face of the halves of the mold that is keeping it from sealing. Does the base of your bullet have a dimple in it? That means that you are not pouring a puddle of lead on the sprue hole and as the lead cools, it is sucking down into the mold. It needs a puddle of lead on the sprue hole to prevent that. Cowboy mentioned that in his posting. If the bullet looks all wrinkled, that usually means that your lead is not hot enough. or your mold is not hot enough yet. If it is the mold being too cool, just pre-heat it longer. Place one corner of the mold in the molten lead and let it heat up. If you remove the mold and a chunk of lead clings to it, it is too cool. If you remove it and it leaves a solid place in the lead in your pot, again, you mold is not hot enough. When the mold is hot enough, it will not do either of these things. Always clean and smoke your mold before casting. Lube your mold hinge and sprue plate hinge with a tiny bit bees wax, NEVER paraffin. Do not let the bees wax get into the mold cavity. Sometimes you may have to re-smoke it as you are casting. Smoking is not a "one and done" process, you need to smoke the mold as often as it needs it.
If the lead is hot enough, your dipper, if you use one, is hot enough, the mold is clean and smoked and hot enough and you pour a little extra lead on the sprue hole and let it solidify before opening the mold, and your lead has been fluxed with a little bit of paraffin or other organic material and the dross skimmed off you should have no problems. Fluxing is another thing you may have to do more than once as you cast. Flux and skim your lead anytime you see crud forming on the top of your lead.
Tom Compton
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What Cowyboy said. I have a thermometer but not sure it's calibrated. 900*-950* is where I run especially casting heavy items like .577" 500gr minie.
What Cowyboy said. I have a thermometer but not sure it's calibrated. 900*-950* is where I run especially casting heavy items like .577" 500gr minie.
I don't know about bismuth but a tiny bit of tin will help with bullet fill out without increasing hardness any significant amount. Pure lead needs high temp to cast well.
What kind of conical, minie or maxie? The minie has a base pin that needs to be heated as well and if it isn't as hot as the mould, it will cool the lead to fast and it won't fill out properly. Minie moulds can be a pita sometimes. I have one that is very difficult to fill out proper.
Lastly aluminum mould or steel?
What kind of conical, minie or maxie? The minie has a base pin that needs to be heated as well and if it isn't as hot as the mould, it will cool the lead to fast and it won't fill out properly. Minie moulds can be a pita sometimes. I have one that is very difficult to fill out proper.
Lastly aluminum mould or steel?
MountainRanger
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Well, I think Billnpatti said it all... I tend to see some deformed balls which tells me that my mold isn't hot enough. That's like the 'baker's dozen' (13). The first doughnut is always the test doughnut.
Aluminum mold. I'm not sure, but I believe it is a Maxie Conical mold. The balls looked wrinkled. I think I confused the brown gunk on the top of the pot with burned lead, which I have never heard of or known was possible. This caused me to turn down the temperature, which I know was too low because the lead barely poured out the spout. I'll try dropping in some beeswax, heating the pot and mold at a higher temperature, and recleaning and smoking the lube again.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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The brown gunk is called dross...it is a mixture of oxides and impurities that burn off and float to the top of the lead....THIS IS NORMAL and is encouraged by the introduction of beeswax.Erik550c said:
When you add the beeswax, stir it in with a spoon and scrape the sides and bottom of the pot to dislodge any impurities....they will float to the top and can be skimmed of.
Note: it will smoke....
As for the description of the wrinkled balls....you answered your own question...
You turned the temp down to far.
When I pour I usually run my temp up until I start getting frosted balls then I back it off slightly until it goes away....
How did you know what I was going to say? :wink:
Perzactly on spot. For me, the first appearance of frost is saying my temp is perfect. Works for me.
Hot frosty balls are better than cold wrinkled balls and that's a fact jack. 
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You tell no lies..... :thumbsup:
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nhmoose said:Hot frosty balls are better than cold wrinkled balls and that's a fact jack.
dang! ... makes me want to go put on a sweater just thinking about it!
Billnpatti said:
Update: I followed all the instructions given, but my conicals are still wrinkled/deformed. I heated the pot at maximum setting, fluxed the pot and skimmed the brown impurities, smoked and tooth-picked and solvent swabbed the mold till clean and waxed it, heated the mold hot, and cast... Same result. Deformed bullets. The lead hardly flows out of the spout even heated at max setting (and this pot is designed for lead). I don't think it is filling fast enough nor full enough. Why won't it pour full speed? It is too thick and hardens before the mold has had a chance to fill. Also, the two excess ports at the top become hard instantly and it is hard to wood mallet it open (pivoting part of the mold).
After unplugged for a minute or two:
What I skimmed from the top in the ladle (of about 2 lbs. of lead added to pot):
Thanks!
"The lead hardly flows out of the spout even heated at max setting (and this pot is designed for lead)."
The metal at the spout is sometimes a lot cooler than the molten metal in the pot/furnace. As I've never had any luck casting with a bottom pour furnace (Lee 10- and 20 lb. furnaces), I removed the bottom-pour feature, plugged the spout, and cast with a ladle. You may want to consider that avenue, as it works very well, especially for heavier bullets. Moreover, a casting thermometer, e.g. Tel-True brand, goes
along way in regulating pot temperature and casting consistency + it's not expensive at all. In short, it, and a ladle, will pay for themselves by reducing poor results and the attendant frustration.
P.S. I saw the pics after I wrote the above. Your mold is too cool and possibly contaminated by wax or oil as well. Once you clean (soap & water), dry it, and cast with it, try smoking it with wooden matches. Although some regard "smoking" as a waste of time, I've found it to work on many, but not all my molds.
The metal at the spout is sometimes a lot cooler than the molten metal in the pot/furnace. As I've never had any luck casting with a bottom pour furnace (Lee 10- and 20 lb. furnaces), I removed the bottom-pour feature, plugged the spout, and cast with a ladle. You may want to consider that avenue, as it works very well, especially for heavier bullets. Moreover, a casting thermometer, e.g. Tel-True brand, goes
along way in regulating pot temperature and casting consistency + it's not expensive at all. In short, it, and a ladle, will pay for themselves by reducing poor results and the attendant frustration.
P.S. I saw the pics after I wrote the above. Your mold is too cool and possibly contaminated by wax or oil as well. Once you clean (soap & water), dry it, and cast with it, try smoking it with wooden matches. Although some regard "smoking" as a waste of time, I've found it to work on many, but not all my molds.
How are you heating the mold and cut off plate?
They both need to be almost as hot as the lead.
If the cut off plate is too cool, it will chill the lead as it pours thru the gate (hole) and the cooler lead will begin to harden before it has a chance to fill the cavity.
When heating the mold and cut off plate remember, aluminum conducts heat very rapidly and it only weighs about 1/3 the weight of steel.
This allows it to heat up by just casting a few bullets but it is better to float the mold on top of the lead to get it up to temperature.
Steel conducts heat much more slowly than aluminum and because it weighs more, it takes much longer to heat up to casting temperature. Once hot, it also loses its heat more slowly than aluminum so the idea is, get the cut off plate very hot before casting the first bullet.
This can be done by placing the cut off plate into the lead and letting it soak for a while.
Once it is, just the casting of more bullets will keep it hot.
They both need to be almost as hot as the lead.
If the cut off plate is too cool, it will chill the lead as it pours thru the gate (hole) and the cooler lead will begin to harden before it has a chance to fill the cavity.
When heating the mold and cut off plate remember, aluminum conducts heat very rapidly and it only weighs about 1/3 the weight of steel.
This allows it to heat up by just casting a few bullets but it is better to float the mold on top of the lead to get it up to temperature.
Steel conducts heat much more slowly than aluminum and because it weighs more, it takes much longer to heat up to casting temperature. Once hot, it also loses its heat more slowly than aluminum so the idea is, get the cut off plate very hot before casting the first bullet.
This can be done by placing the cut off plate into the lead and letting it soak for a while.
Once it is, just the casting of more bullets will keep it hot.
Are you actually mating the nozzle on the bottom of the pot with the hole in the top of the sprue plate? If your pouring the lead in with a gap between the mold and the bottom of the pot you will get this result. Even when using a ladle you will have the same thing happen if they aren't mated together when pouring the lead.
