Making a barrel

[lyuv]

I plan to build a flintlock pistol more-or-less from scratch (except for the lock). I want it to be able to shoot "standard" loads (round balls).

For barrel all I can get is a round piece of mild steel or brass, and have it drilled. I doubt if I can get strength data on the metal. Some questions that trouble me are:

1) Choosing inside and outside diameters (and thus the wall thickness).

2) Should I drill through and install (make from scratch) breach plug? or just drill to depth?

3) Do I leave the outside round and parallel? Is it worth the trouble to mill it to octagon, or to turn it to a tapper?

4) How do I proof test the finished gun?

ANY tips and pointers on making the barrel will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

So you have zero experience with building, zero experience with metals, do not know how to install a breechplug and have no idea what the wall thickness should be and you have never proof fired a barrel?

You intend to get all of the information you need from the internet from people you do not know who may/may not know what they are talking about or may/may not be shooting you a line of :bull: ???

My advice is to start with a snap together factory kit. Build two or three of these and then switch to a premium kit where everything is not already inletted and driled.

By that time you may have seen enough premium parts and junk to make some assumptions over what comprises a safe firearm. From that point you may be in a state where you can do what you are proposing and keep all of your body parts intact.

It can be done, but it takes a good deal of experience to find safe and durable materials and turn out a trustworthy part.

 

Good Morning Oh Ghost from Michigan . I say BRAVO to you on your reply to that young man. These things we play with are not the safest things in the world. Some think that they can advise without experiance. It takes knowlege and experiance to build a rifle or pistol. However it seems that any damn fool can make a bomb. :shake: Nuff said.

 

[boar]

Why not buy the barrel, you will have plenty work to do to make rest. Get it when you get the lock. Plenty out there. Get one with breech plug installed. Dilly

 

[chipper]

Don't let any of this discourage you man. There are folks out there that build entire rifles from scratch. Keep focused on your goal and learn the steps one at a time until your ready to do the work. I would start by joining a shooting club and make some friends. There are folks out there that have done the work. Most will teach you what you need to know for no more than the cost of a cup of coffee.

Regards
Wounded Knee

 

[crockett]

There is another aspect to this as well. If you are trying to build from scratch to imitate what was done years ago, barrels weren't made that way. A flat piece of steel was heated cherry red and hammered around a mandrel to form a barrel. The flats were then ground out. I think that is still the way they are made in the gun shop at Colonial Williamsburg. You can get a pistol barrel for $30-40 for a pistol and if you check around, you may find closeouts for even less. All that said, I agree with Ghost, you need to put together a few kits. You can probably sell the kit-finished gun to get your money back. Look at the kit as a learning experience and take your time building it.

 

[Zonie]

lyuv:
Good answers, all.

As was mentioned in your post when you say "For barrel all I can get is a round piece of mild steel or brass, and have it drilled. I doubt if I can get strength data on the metal", you recognize the need to know these things. Not knowing the strength of the material can be very dangerous.

If you go to the "Track of the Wolf"you will find unbreached pistol barrels in .36, .40, .45, .50 and .54 caliber for about $40. The breech plug will cost about $8. Right there, you have a fine barrel which will pose no danger to you.
A Flintlock is the easiest lock to install and will run about $95 for the small Siler.
While your there, you might look at the simple trigger which will cost between $6 and $15 or you can make your own.

Yes, the cost is more than just buying a piece of tubing and trying to cobble up some sort of lock, but the parts have the potential of making a fine pistol that is both safe and will work like it should.

One thing you really need is to spend about $20 for a book on building a black powder gun.
A good book in my opinion is Dixons "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle".
If you really don't want to spend $20 you could try R.H.McCrory's book "The Modern Kentucky Rifle" for $9. While perhaps not as complete, it at least will give you some valuable information which you will need to know.

Don't let our negative responces get you down. You will find that building a Black Powder gun is a fun hobby.

 

[lyuv]

Geez, so glad I got here. Pleasent welcome, usefull information, and best of all - some enlightenment on myself.

I always thought that 30 years of handling, fixing and modifying guns (modern), plus being an experienced engineer, would qualify me for little more than "zero knowledge and zero experience". Well, I was wrong, wasnt I?

The fact that the metal available to me as a hobiest has no info means I"m a total duff, doesnt it? And never proofing a black powder gun means I"m a silly kid playing with fire. right?

Oh, jenius Ghost, you must tell me what gave me away on "not knowing how to install a breechplug". Was it me wondering of it's advantages over a permanently sealed breech?

In my country, absolutly no muzzleloading guns or kits or barrels are available, nor clubs. But I still get to be mindless for not buying a kit or a barrel. right?

I asked for information and help to spare me re-inventing the wheel. You want to help me? bless you. You want to play with imaginary fact. than [pick a dirty word for yourself]...

 

[lyuv]

zonie thanks.
metal strength IS a mistery. it's best described as mild steel (low carbon, no treating), so I"ll have to assueme it's the weakest of it's kind. At least to begin with.

I considered doing destructive test - uping the load untill it bursts, thus getting some idea. Or, if I get to a load big enough (?), assume I have a safe barrel and use it.

I"m looking for a reasonable starting point.

 

[Bountyhunter]

lyuv,

What country are you in? These guys are really trying to help you, but from your first post, they had no idea of your experience with guns or your experience as an engineer. Therefore, from a liability standpoint, one must assume that you do not have experience.

Hang around here and get to know these guys, and you will be glad you did.

Is there any chance that you could order parts from a different country? Some companies in the US will ship and some wont. The postage might be expensive.

Welcome to the Forum.

Bill

 

[Henry]

If you are going to have the metal drilled
by somebody else , let him buy the metal as well
he will get it at wholesale price . :hmm:

I did more or less what you intend to do
I am building my fourth gun right now ( a Tulle , stock made from scratch ) .

Unless you have good access ( and experience )
to a forge , it is very difficult to make a flint
lock from scratch , buy one from Track or Rifle Shoppe , by the way a kit from Rifle Shoppe is not
a plastic airplane model , there is a lot of work involved .

But over all I suggest you join the sect of the
thrue guru : Kit Ravenshear . ( he is unfortunately dead now ) his booklets about
gun making are worth their weight in gold .

Keep working :v

 

[Henry]

Another detail : There is a fair amount of
thread work to do in a gun , you have access
to métric or SAE taps & dies ?

 

[John Taylor]

When I first started making guns I was using any steel I could get and making small canons. Mild steel is much stronger than the welded wroght iron used to make early barrels. I hear a lot of guy talking about heat treated steels for barrels and get a laugh. 4140 heat treated is the standard for high power cartridge barrels, hardened to 28-32 rockwell C. Most muzzle loading barrels are made from 12L14 because it machines very easy, you can carve it with a pocket knife. The "L" in the middle of the number stands for lead which is added to the steel to help it machine better.
I have used Shelby seamless tube to make a rifle barrel for a 50 Express Winchester. This is about the same hardness as the 1886 Winchester barrel it replaced. You will probably want to keep the wall thickness about 1/2 bore diameter untill you get some experience making guns. Have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions. Give enough info on what you are doing to get a good answer.

 

[Bookie]

Lyuv, I invite you to read the small treatise on barrel making on my website. It's listed as my home page in my public profile. Cheers, Bookie

 

[Zonie]

Lyuv: As your an engineer (mechanical, I hope), the maximum breech pressure I've seen listed (by Lyman) is around 28,000 PSI. This was in a gun shooting heavy conical bullets.
As a general guess on my part, a pistol barrel will be seeing somewhere around 9,000 PSI max.
When calculating the required wall thickness don't forget this is a heavy pulse pressure which needs a high margin of safety.

Most BP Muzzleloaders are made of low carbon steel with a Tensile strength of about 70,000 psi (12l14 is 57 KSI hot rolled and 78 cold rolled).
Just a caution though. Some low carbon steel can be as low as 43 KSI with a Yield of 24 KSI).

I would suggest shying away from "seamless tubing" because without the materials Certs it could be almost anything.

As others have mentioned, we have no way of knowing your background or past experiance and under those conditions, it is best to answer questions on the safe side.

As for brass/bronze, as you may know, some of these can be as low as 14,000 PSI yield (and that's for wrought material) with poor elongation. Some of them are also very sensative to repeated shock such as may be found in a gun.

Hope your not so pi$$ed you leave, but a man does as he must.

 

[BLAHMAN]

Geez, so glad I got here. Pleasent welcome, usefull information, and best of all - some enlightenment on myself.

I always thought that 30 years of handling, fixing and modifying guns (modern), plus being an experienced engineer, would qualify me for little more than "zero knowledge and zero experience". Well, I was wrong, wasnt I?

The fact that the metal available to me as a hobiest has no info means I"m a total duff, doesnt it? And never proofing a black powder gun means I"m a silly kid playing with fire. right?

Oh, jenius Ghost, you must tell me what gave me away on "not knowing how to install a breechplug". Was it me wondering of it's advantages over a permanently sealed breech?

In my country, absolutly no muzzleloading guns or kits or barrels are available, nor clubs. But I still get to be mindless for not buying a kit or a barrel. right?

I asked for information and help to spare me re-inventing the wheel. You want to help me? bless you. You want to play with imaginary fact. than [pick a dirty word for yourself]...

I got some bad news....you spelled genius wrong.

Hope that helps.