Making a Queen Anne Turn Off Pistol

[dave_person]

Hi,
While also building an Edward Marshall rifle, I am working on this little gem. Breech loading side lock turn off pistols were the most popular civilian pistols made in England for over 100 years (1650-1770). Although decorative details changed over time, the basic design remained remarkably the same during that period. Like so many early technologies related to firearms, the French probably invented the design but the English refined it and made it work better than anyone else. My pistol is a mid 18th century design based on a pistol by John Harman, one of the best London makers. I made the action from parts cast by TRS with a few minor modifications and improvements. The decorative mounts will be silver that I will cast and chisel. The stock is modestly figured English walnut. I'll probably include silver wire inlay and of course will engrave the gun in the appropriate manner for the time and place. One of the first challenges was drilling the powder chamber and making the ball recess. That had to be concentric with the bore, which is 54 caliber. I calculated the powder chamber needed to be about 1/4" in diameter and 1 7/16" long so the end was perpendicular to the vent hole. That would hold about 20 grains of 3f powder. I used empty 6mm rifle cartridges and drilled out the primer holes and necks to 1/4 inch. The body of the cartridge fit the barrel perfectly. I place 2 of theses cartridges in the barrel, screwed it on the receiver, and inserted a 1/4" bell hanger's drill in the cartridges. They made perfect guides for the drill and centered it on the bore. I then drilled a hole 1 7/16" deep. Then I took a 1/2" drill and drilled the ball recess, finishing its shape and dimensions with 1/2" ball shaped grinding stones. It was not hard to use the stones to fit a 54 caliber ball. The depth of the recess had to be just sufficient to fit the ball and screw on the barrel such that the shoulder in the barrel just "kissed" the ball with the barrel fully tightened on the threads. These pistols are really well designed and the mechanism is strong and ingenious.

The decorative ribs on the barrel are a bit clumsy and cartoonish. They don't match any of the originals I've seen. Consequently, I turned the barrel today to reshape the ribs more correctly.

I also chose a nice piece of English walnut for the handle.

More to come.

dave

 

[Sam squanch]

Can’t wait!

 

[Justin.44]

Very impressive! I look forward to seeing it finished.

 

[Artificer]

Hi Dave,

Are you going to add a lug to the barrel for the barrel wrench or did they stop using barrel wrenches by that period?

Gus

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Oh boy, this will be fun to follow!

 

[jerrywh]

Dave. I would like to congratulate you for taking on a unique project. You are my type of gunbuilder. It takes real skill. That is a tough project.

 

[Jeff Kaufmann]

I had an absolute blast when I built mine. I used the castings available from Blackley and son from a 1740 G. Gill of Richmond. The most time consuming portion for me was inletting the stock as it is necessary to inlet the strap behind the trigger guard and the receiver all at the same time and it is a complex and compound shape in multiple directions. On the castings that I purchased the ball cup was already present, but I still needed to drill out the powder chamber. I went a little larger in diameter and use 30 gr of 3f in mine which seems to be a suitable load for my pistol which is .62 caliber at the breech tapered to .60 caliber at the muzzle. I cannot wait to see how your example turns out, I built mine as an enthusiastic and moderately skilled novice and am still very happy with the end result. I have no doubt that your piece will be of museum quality as all of your work tends to be. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Eterry]

I regret I didn't buy what i'm certain was an original years ago at gun show. But I was cash poor at the time.
I look forward to seeing this one progress.
Bravo, Dave.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Boy did I have fun inletting the action. into the stock. I've not done the guts yet but the challenging game of 3 dimensional chess is done. It came out well and everything is nice and tight. All the points of contact came together at the same time with good, crisp, clean fit.

Kind of looks like an anteater.

I want to preserve as much wood within the stock for strength when I inlet the guts. More to come.

dave

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I inlet the guts. Boy it was fun and I preserved a much wood as I could. In addition, you have to consider how you slide the action into the stock and make pathways for all the components to slide in place. It was a really fun challenge and I learned a lot. I so admire those great English gun makers. In the photos I show the action at rest and then half cock. At half cock, the trigger guard can be pushed forward to lock the action at half cock. It blocks the mainspring and tumbler from moving. That allows you to load and prime and close the pan, and put the gun safely in your overcoat pocket ready for protection. To fire, you push the trigger guard back and bring the pistol to full cock. The last photos show the mortice for the action. You can see how complicated it is if you also want to preserve as much wood as you can, which the makers of the originals did.

I have to put the pistol aside for a while to continue working on an Edward Marshall rifle. More to come later.

dave

 

[Sam squanch]

I had a turn off pistol. It was rusty , broken stock, weak springs. It was a real......TURN OFF! Get it? I’m on fire.....

 

[Sam squanch]

I also knew a girl named Anne who was a real turn off, but that’s another story....

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave,
As always you are doing a stellar job! Lovey inletting... Those cannon rings look better now!
Are you going to cut some at the muzzle?

Here is an old converted William Bailes, mid century. Can just see the rings at the muzzle.

Yours will be Spectacular when finish'd!!
The quarter -inch chamber is about dead on. This on is a .62, and holds 40 grains of powder.

 

[dave_person]

Hi and thanks folks,
Richard, I think I will grind some off the muzzle and flatten the cannon mouth a little more. The barrel from TRS really is not very correct and it is also rifled. As you know, many of the 17th century versions were rifled but I understand that the vast majority made in the 18th century were smooth. In fact, I've not examined any that were rifled. I am also pondering the butt cap. I have an historically inspired design of a lion head in mind. All of the decoration will be in silver and the cap design could lend itself to being produced by repousse rather than casting. My understanding and experience tells me all of these caps were cast and then chiseled and engraved but have you ever encountered one that shows evidence of being formed sheet metal? I am not sure if I could cast the cap with a two piece clay casting mold. I may have to do it via lost wax and figure out a method of injection because I don't think gravity pour alone will work. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them.

Thanks,

dave

 

[Commodore Swab]

Have you had your fun with the triggerguard yet? Im sure people here would love to know how that works as a safety. I used the brass frame and maple that I left golden on the last one I did.

 

[dave_person]

Hi CS,
If you read my previous post, I already installed the safety and it was no problem to build and inlet. It works very nicely with the hook on the mainspring being blocked by the safety slide so it cannot be moved to full cock. The spring and nub systems is very secure and positive. The biggest technical issue for me was deciding what sized screw to use. I originally planned for a 5-40 but a stronger 6-40 fit fine.

dave

 

[user 48679]

You pistol builders are wwaaaaay above my pay grade, nevermind the exhibited expertise !

My hat's off to you folks.... ( I can only drool )

 

[Commodore Swab]

I thought you might like to mention how the TG slides forward to engage the safety since it is as I like to say "cool"

I have an original queen anne circa early 1800'sthat is as I think of "perfected" the safety actually includes a pint hat pushes forward to the frizzen into a hole in the frizzen locking it shut

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave,

My experience with these is Much less than your own.
All I can say is I have never seen a butt-cap of this type fabricated of sheet metal, but I am sure You could do it if anyone!
Blackley has some very nice castings, but it has taken me three years to not get some parts from them...I know some very nice silver castings are available, inc. the one on the pistol I showed above, but do not know if TRS has them.
I believe lost wax is the only option for this style and degree of high relief casting.
I think I know the lion casting you are considering, but do not have one.
I too only seen smooth -bores in 18th C.

Highest regards,
Richard.

 

[Bob Picking]

These are the hardest hitting pistol until centre fire cartridges
Were not rifled as they were close protection weapons
Now for the hardest part fitting the stock