Making a tapered/flared end ramrod

[TarponStalker]

About 20 + years ago I built this John Armstrong style rifle from parts I bought from Pecatonica River. I was fairly new to gun building and didn’t have the help of forums and internet to guide me. Only a book. As hard as I tried to make it slender as possible I should’ve taken a bit more from the stock.
As you can see that caused a gap between the rammer and nose cap. Every time I look at this it drives me crazy.
I used to see guns with ramrods that have the wood at the muzzle and flared out a good bit.
I thought I’d try building another rod that had a tapered brass end that’ll go in the thimbles (this tip is too large ) and start with the rod diameter large enough that I can turn it down but leave the muzzle end flared enough to fill some of the gap I left.
I hope I’m explaining myself clearly.
I don’t have tools other than rasps /files and sandpaper. I have used a drill with the rod locked in the Chuck to sand down. My drill press is on my bench so I haven’t used it fir this.
I figure I’ll order a blank large enough to fill the muzzle gap the turn it down enough to fit the thimbles.
Any ideas?

 

[Steve Martin]

The gap between the nose cap and the ramrod is normal. I don't see why it bothers you, the whole reason the fore stock of most long rifles and muskets taper down at the nose cap is to "clear" the ram rod making it easier to grip the ram rod when extracting or re-inserting it in the ram rod channel.

 

[Brokennock]

gap between the nose cap and the ramrod is normal.

the whole reason the fore stock of most long rifles and muskets taper down at the nose cap is to "clear" the ram rod making it easier to grip the ram rod

Really?

 

[Brokennock]

About 20 + years ago I built this John Armstrong style rifle from parts I bought from Pecatonica River. I was fairly new to gun building and didn’t have the help of forums and internet to guide me. Only a book. As hard as I tried to make it slender as possible I should’ve taken a bit more from the stock.
As you can see that caused a gap between the rammer and nose cap. Every time I look at this it drives me crazy.
I used to see guns with ramrods that have the wood at the muzzle and flared out a good bit.
I thought I’d try building another rod that had a tapered brass end that’ll go in the thimbles (this tip is too large ) and start with the rod diameter large enough that I can turn it down but leave the muzzle end flared enough to fill some of the gap I left.
I hope I’m explaining myself clearly.
I don’t have tools other than rasps /files and sandpaper. I have used a drill with the rod locked in the Chuck to sand down. My drill press is on my bench so I haven’t used it fir this.
I figure I’ll order a blank large enough to fill the muzzle gap the turn it down enough to fit the thimbles.
Any ideas?

Really not fair of you to not include a full pic of your rifle
I've seen posts of a lot of people doing this with sandpaper and a drill to spin the rod. It is on my list of projects as well. You will need a way to keep the end of the rid opposite the drill from whipping around in circles.
It gets done quite often in a manner negating the need for a brass end on that end of the rod.

Go slow....
Maybe order 2 ramrod blanks,,,, just in case.

 

[Brokennock]

Most of the pics of original rifles that I can dig up quickly from my phone's picture files show very little to no gap between rod and muzzle cap, or where the cap would be if there isn't one. A significant gap shows that there is too thick of a web between ramrod channel and barrel channel.
It is also providing a place for something like a branch or bunch of brush to get stuck between the rod and the stock and do damage.

Admittedly the second gun pictured is much later and smoothbore,,, but even without a full stock, the tip of the rod was kept close to the muzzle.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

French firelocks had such a pronounced or bulbous ramrod tip and that might be what you're thinking of; see the example 1727 Fusil de Chasse from the Tulle Armory below.

To make them, yes we start with a rod of the larger diameter and then taper it down so as to have the longer rod section, also tapered at the entry end, concentric with the bulbous nose portion. Clearly it is much easier said than done, depending on what tooling you may have avaialable. e.g., wood lathe, Mike Lea's special ramrod tapering tool, or the vice-held hardened ramrod scraper tool, etc.

Tip - If using a hand-held cordless drill and hand tools (plane, rasps, files, etc.), here's a tip. Mark off the section you want 'full diameter' and then start making flats on the rest of the length, even with a small block plane it works pretty fast ... like you were going to make it be like an octagonal barrel. Work 180-degrees apart, then rotate 90-degrees, and then make flats between those done already and you'll soo get the jist for how big or deep your 'flats' need to be - just keep the lines on the flats parallel or each flat the same width. Gauge carefully so when you turn it round (watch out the other whipping end ... ) you'll meet your desired ramrod pipe diameter.

 

[Mgbruch]

I begin with a 7/16: hickory rod, and a tapered steel tip I get from Jim Chambers Flintlocks. I begin at the bottom (the end that goes into the stock) and begin tapering with scapers and rasps. I use the ramrod pipes (approximately 3/8") on the gun as a guide for when to stop. I also mark the rod to indicate where I don't want it tapered... where the flare begins. Once I get the rod so it goes all the way in, then I install the ramrod tip. I then taper the rod from the point it meets the stock when fully inserted down to the tapered tip (which is 5/16" outside diameter). I also cup the large end for the profile of a round ball. I don't use a short starter, so the cup keeps the rod centered on the ball for starting.

 

[rich pierce]

All good advice above regarding solving the gap issue. I will offer another option. Reduce the web between the barrel and the ramrod groove, from the entry thimble to the nosecap. Take the thimbles out and deepen the groove. But leave enough so that your pins holding the thimbles have enough to work with. Plane or rasp or shape the ramrod groove “wings” to show 2/3 of the ramrod. Reduce the height of the tabs on your thimbles. Re-inlet them and re-drill for the pins. Touch up the stain and finish.

Not for everyone, and it doesn’t solve everything. But you’ve got a big gap there and a bore-size ramrod end might not fix it.

 

[Brokennock]

All good advice above regarding solving the gap issue. I will offer another option. Reduce the web between the barrel and the ramrod groove, from the entry thimble to the nosecap. Take the thimbles out and deepen the groove. But leave enough so that your pins holding the thimbles have enough to work with. Plane or rasp or shape the ramrod groove “wings” to show 2/3 of the ramrod. Reduce the height of the tabs on your thimbles. Re-inlet them and re-drill for the pins. Touch up the stain and finish.

Not for everyone, and it doesn’t solve everything. But you’ve got a big gap there and a bore-size ramrod end might not fix it.

I wondered if that was a possibility.

 

[TarponStalker]

Really not fair of you to not include a full pic of your rifle
I've seen posts of a lot of people doing this with sandpaper and a drill to spin the rod. It is on my list of projects as well. You will need a way to keep the end of the rid opposite the drill from whipping around in circles.
It gets done quite often in a manner negating the need for a brass end on that end of the rod.

Go slow....
Maybe order 2 ramrod blanks,,,, just in case.

Thanks Brokennock.
Here’s a “not so great” photo of this rifle. It’s my first attempt at inletting inlays so not perfect. But it’s a nice gun that shoots well.

 

[TarponStalker]

I begin with a 7/16: hickory rod, and a tapered steel tip I get from Jim Chambers Flintlocks. I begin at the bottom (the end that goes into the stock) and begin tapering with scapers and rasps. I use the ramrod pipes (approximately 3/8") on the gun as a guide for when to stop. I also mark the rod to indicate where I don't want it tapered... where the flare begins. Once I get the rod so it goes all the way in, then I install the ramrod tip. I then taper the rod from the point it meets the stock when fully inserted down to the tapered tip (which is 5/16" outside diameter). I also cup the large end for the profile of a round ball. I don't use a short starter, so the cup keeps the rod centered on the ball for starting.

Thank you for these instructions. It’s what I’m looking for.

 

[deerstalkert]

i start with a 3/8 inch rod. i made a block with a bearing inserted to use as a tail piece. using a cordless drill i rasp or sand the rod to the desired contour.
that block with the bearing is held by my bench vise at the height of the chuck of my drill. the hard part is holding the drill motor in my left hand and the rasp or gouge in my right hand.

 

[TarponStalker]

All good advice above regarding solving the gap issue. I will offer another option. Reduce the web between the barrel and the ramrod groove, from the entry thimble to the nosecap. Take the thimbles out and deepen the groove. But leave enough so that your pins holding the thimbles have enough to work with. Plane or rasp or shape the ramrod groove “wings” to show 2/3 of the ramrod. Reduce the height of the tabs on your thimbles. Re-inlet them and re-drill for the pins. Touch up the stain and finish.

Not for everyone, and it doesn’t solve everything. But you’ve got a big gap there and a bore-size ramrod end might not fix it.

Thanks Rich.
I’m afraid I don’t have the guts to do this but I have considered it.

 

[TarponStalker]

French firelocks had such a pronounced or bulbous ramrod tip and that might be what you're thinking of; see the example 1727 Fusil de Chasse from the Tulle Armory below.

To make them, yes we start with a rod of the larger diameter and then taper it down so as to have the longer rod section, also tapered at the entry end, concentric with the bulbous nose portion. Clearly it is much easier said than done, depending on what tooling you may have avaialable. e.g., wood lathe, Mike Lea's special ramrod tapering tool, or the vice-held hardened ramrod scraper tool, etc.

Tip - If using a hand-held cordless drill and hand tools (plane, rasps, files, etc.), here's a tip. Mark off the section you want 'full diameter' and then start making flats on the rest of the length, even with a small block plane it works pretty fast ... like you were going to make it be like an octagonal barrel. Work 180-degrees apart, then rotate 90-degrees, and then make flats between those done already and you'll soo get the jist for how big or deep your 'flats' need to be - just keep the lines on the flats parallel or each flat the same width. Gauge carefully so when you turn it round (watch out the other whipping end ... ) you'll meet your desired ramrod pipe diameter.

View attachment 202182

Thank you. This is what I’d like to do

 

[TarponStalker]

The gap between the nose cap and the ramrod is normal. I don't see why it bothers you, the whole reason the fore stock of most long rifles and muskets taper down at the nose cap is to "clear" the ram rod making it easier to grip the ram rod when extracting or re-inserting it in the ram rod channel.

I guess it’s just my preference. I like the rod to be close to the stock. To me it looks better. I may be wrong but the gap gives it a look of a lesser quality gun. I don’t have problems grabbing the ramrod when’s it’s up tight to the stock.
Again. Just personal preferences.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[TarponStalker]

i start with a 3/8 inch rod. i made a block with a bearing inserted to use as a tail piece. using a cordless drill i rasp or sand the rod to the desired contour.
that block with the bearing is held by my bench vise at the height of the chuck of my drill. the hard part is holding the drill motor in my left hand and the rasp or gouge in my right hand.
View attachment 202422

Thanks for the tip. I’m hoping my wife may take the place of the bearing. Lol

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I sanded down a larger ramrod to have a more flared end on the ramrod for the larger bore size.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[FlinterNick]

I use set of dowel tenon cutters and then smooth it out with a lathe.

 

[Anvilboy]

I have posted this before, it is an easy way to make a ramrod and would fit your need perfectly. Start with an oversize rod and don't turn down what you don't want smaller. I was even able to taper from the small size of the thimble entering size to the larger end.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

About 20 + years ago I built this John Armstrong style rifle from parts I bought from Pecatonica River. I was fairly new to gun building and didn’t have the help of forums and internet to guide me. Only a book. As hard as I tried to make it slender as possible I should’ve taken a bit more from the stock.
As you can see that caused a gap between the rammer and nose cap. Every time I look at this it drives me crazy.
I used to see guns with ramrods that have the wood at the muzzle and flared out a good bit.

Most of us builders will ocassionally have an unsatifactory end build result. If it were me, and I had your distane for what drives you crazy: I would just make another nose cap. Make it drop to where you want it, and of course it will have to be longer to fit the wood on the back end. If the longer look is not OK, then whack the end of the barrel off. Not as good as doing it right the first time, but it could give you some peace of mind. Just a thought!
Larry