Manton

[Daleallen]

I just received my Manton SxS shotgun! It is so beautiful!

To start with, the right hand barrel measures 8.1mm or .31inch inside diameter. The hammer on the right side (as I am holding it to my right shoulder) is loose, a very short screw. The shotgun total length is 48.5 inches.
I am nervous about breaking it down any further, so I will wait until I can get the weapon to a gunsmith.

I have not run a patch through it yet, but I do not see any bulges or cracks in the barrel, although eyeballing the breech, it appears that I might have a head spacing issue, maybe not, I am not qualified to say.

Any advice that you all can give me would be deeply appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,

daleallen

P.S. pictures to follow

 

[TFoley]

Hi there. I have to admit that I'm confused about the use of the term 'headspace' in the context of a muzzleloading shotgun. Can you clear that up for me, please?

 

[Daleallen]

Hi there. I have to admit that I'm confused about the use of the term 'headspace' in the context of a muzzleloading shotgun. Can you clear that up for me, please?

I am looking at the space where the barrels end and there is a slight gap between the barrels and the hammer mechanism.

 

[Daleallen]

I am looking at the space where the barrels end and there is a slight gap between the barrels and the hammer mechanism.

I know that I am probably not accurately describing what I see, I apologize. When I include pictures, all will become clear, I hope.

thank you for helping the beginner,

daleallen

 

[Feltwad]

Headspace I think what you mean is a space between the barrel breach and the standing breach mostly caused by worn breach hooks Images would help but I estimate it will only be a basic restoration job for the complete gun .
Feltwad

Is this what you mean

 

[TFoley]

Ahah!! assuming that your shotgun IS a muzzleloader, the small gap that you can see is probably the space between the barrels and the lock. Is there another very small gap at the end of the barrels? Where they butt up against the tang? Removing the tenon keys you might find that the barrels lift out en bloc, but we'll be abler to tell better, as you say, when we see pics. Here are a few words to help you...yeah, I KNOW it's a rifle, but the names of the parts are the same.....

 

[Daleallen]

That is indeed good news. We are new to this area, so I will need to ask around to find a good gunsmith.

thank you for the information.

 

[Zonie]

I'm curious.

You say the right bore measures 8.1 mm which would be .319" in diameter. Is the left bore the same size?

Also, you say it is a smoothbore. Are you sure?
I ask because that is a very unusual size for a Manton smooth bore. Most muzzleloading, double barrel smooth bore guns are around 20 guage, 12 guage or 10guage. Barrels of those sizes would measure around .620" (15.75 mm = 20 guage ), .730" ( 18.54 mm = 12 guage) and .775" (19.69 mm = 10 guage ).

Usually a bore size of 8.1 mm would be rifled to shoot a ball or bullet.

That said, it might be a smooth bore with a 8.1mm bore. As I understand it, the British did make some smoothbores to hunt pesky, very small birds with.

 

[Daleallen]

I will re-measure tomorrow and keep you informed. Also, I will include pictures.

thank you for the input, I am learning more every day.

daleallen

 

[Eterry]

Is the left hand barrel smaller or larger than the right one? I agree .31 is a tiny shotgun barrel. Perhaps it's a shotgun/rifle combo or a double barreled rifle.

Many old black powder rifle barrels appear smooth due to 100+years of dust/dirt/grime. A snug fitting patch on a jag should help reveal what's up.

 

[jlatz]

This is a nice looking shotgun. Under the barrels you can check the proof marks, London or Birmingham. British proof marks can be searched on the web. They will give an idea when it was proofed/made. Drop a very small flashlight down the bores to see their condition. In removing the barrels hold them by the wedge lug and tap them lightly with a pencil. They should ring like a church bell indicting the solder rib joints are sound. The British used soft solder to join barrels and after 150 years or more ribs can spring loose. Many, if not most, continental barrels were brazed. I had two Birmingham guns where the ribs started coming up during use. Fred Alford in Coffeyville, Kan., does that rib re-solder work, but the barrels would have to be refinished. The old guns can be a challenge, but sure are fun to use. I use two Mantons, a double 15 ga percussion and a single barrel 12 ga. percussion..

 

[Feltwad]

A image of the gun I can give you the full details for a restoration you will often find that some guns have had a different set of barrels fitted and if they are rifled are the main cause of slack in the standing breach
Feltwad

 

[Daleallen]

Headspace I think what you mean is a space between the barrel breach and the standing breach mostly caused by worn breach hooks Images would help but I estimate it will only be a basic restoration job for the complete gun .
FeltwadView attachment 31387

Is this what you mean

 

[Daleallen]

Yes. I am looking at it from the top.

 

[Feltwad]

For what I can make out from your images the barrels which are fine twist may be a large bore gun or a d/b rifle why I say that is that the barrels are fixed by two pairs of wedges to the for end only found on a weapon that I have described . For a definite answer remove the barrels and forward a image of the proof marks on the underside near the breach and a image of the muzzle end
Feltwad

 

[Daleallen]

I don’t know what these measurements mean as far as gauge or caliber.

 

[Feltwad]

The measurement of the mzzle represents a 10 bore or a 11bore which the muzzle has enlarged from ramrod where . If when you remove the barrels they will be stamped with the bore size and the London proof marks . Getting back the slack between the breech and the standing breech will be too build up the two hooks on the end of the barrel plugs and file so they fit tight into the standing breech.
Feltwad

 

[TNGhost]

I don’t know what these measurements mean as far as gauge or caliber.

Those calipers are set to measure in inches in decimal form, so 79 hundredths of an inch. .73 (18.5mm) is a 12 gauge, 10 gauge is nominally .775 inches, so I am guessing that yours is a 10, with perhaps a little wear at the muzzle, or allowance to start wads etc.. .78-.79 making yours five to fifteen thousandths over the nominal 10 bore. The next standard regularly found bore size would be an 8 gauge and they would be .835 inches.

Gauge refers to an old world method of determining bore size by giving the number of spherical lead ball that fit in the bore that it took to make a pound. So in the case of your 10 gauge, it would take ten balls of lead the diameter of your bore to make a pound.

Great acquisition, a 10 gauge is perhaps the most flexible and effective muzzleloading shotgun and is suitable to even the largest fowl, such as Canada Geese, Turkeys, etc.

Fine looking gun.

 

[Daleallen]

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate the information.

 

[Feltwad]

If after you have the gun checked out buy a good gunsmith and you intend to use it , for safety sake do not load a normal 10 bore shot load I would recommend a smaller load of 3 drms of FFg black power followed by a 1/8 card wad then a 3/8 felt wad then another 1/8 card followed by 1.1/4 oz of shot with a 1/16 over shot card then a rolled turnover This load will take all game birds at flying sporting shots out too 40 yards including ducks and geese You have a original gun by a good gunmaker which is better than those repros that are on the market today .


Feltwad