Matchlock long

[Colm Byrne]

Hi all just looking for any opinions on this 69 inch matchlock please. All input would be very welcome
Thanks

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Welcome to the forum Colm.
Indian torador, (various spellings!)
Rajasthan I believe.
These are often very long barreled.
Bores are invariably Rough!
Very interesting guns. I have a couple with barrels in the 52 inch bracket.
The one you show has a very slim stock, although that is not unusual.
Its a munitions grade.
Not too common to have an octagonal muzzle section.
Interesting old gun!
Hard to date, as they changed very little between the time of Akbar and the early 19th century.
This one not having sideplates may be mid to later 18th century, but I am no expert!
Best,
Richard.

 

[Sam squanch]

Is the match holder bent and smashed or am I seeing things?

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Twisted I think Sam, but pics hurt my eyes!

 

[Sam squanch]

Either way, it’s a cool old gun!

 

[Colm Byrne]

Thanks for all those comments and information it's much appreciated a few more photos going on now, will try get a good close up down the barrell

 

[Sam squanch]

Yes, I believe your match holder is twisted. Maybe it worked better that way.

 

[rickystl]

Much agree with Pukka in Post #2. Interesting the small iron reinforcement surrounding the serpentine arm (match holder). Not seen as often.
A question: About how much does the gun weigh ?

Rick

 

[Colm Byrne]

Much agree with Pukka in Post #2. Interesting the small iron reinforcement surrounding the serpentine arm (match holder). Not seen as often.
A question: About how much does the gun weigh ?

Rick

It is roughly 5 kilogrammes in weight.

 

[Rudyard]

Not used to metric but seems heavy doesn't look too bad ,had a long hard life. Ide leave it ' attic pristine'. What state the bore ?. Like' Pukka' says they are often rough its probably a forged breach end not threaded but there stout and relatively safe just a bother to clean particularly down near the breach as they often have a built-in design anti chamber .
Welcome to the fold of matchlock students. Iv'e been round them 60 years and still don't know the half of it but its fun learning .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Pukka Bundook]

You will have noticed no swiveling pan cover Colm.
Some never used one, and the powder was pressed into the bottom of the pan and stuck. Some had roughened pans to help hold the powder in.
Others though, had a cover that slipped on sideways, so it fitted under the pan as well as over. Yours being nice and square cold have been this type.
Just noticed it Does have a kind of unusual rudimentary sideplate.... Id still say a pretty early one though.

Can you give the breech a rub with your thumb, Colm?
I am thinking there may be some koftgari still present.

 

[rickystl]

It is roughly 5 kilogrammes in weight.

OK. Thanks. That weight makes it about average/common size. They were built in this size , up to wall gun size (See my Thread in this same Forum). As Pukka mentioned, some were built with pan covers, and some not. Here's what it looked like with a pan cover:

Amazing these muskets were built and used by the locals virtually unchanged for some 200 years.

Rick

 

[Bucks Co]

If they're in good condition - shoot 'em - Matchlocks are just plain fun - if you can't get an original get a new build: I have 1570's style built by Rudyard - 44cal - 'Dutch' snapping- style. It's really a whole new experience; the speed of ignition surprises a lot of people - they just go. Shot mine at Pforzheim in 1989 and Rudyard shot it at the Gunmakers match at Friendship on my way home . John Bivins, no less; was heard to remark "Jesus that m***** was quick".
But be careful they can bite - you have a smouldering match around Black Powder they don't need to meet until the right moment.

 

[Rudyard]

If they're in good condition - shoot 'em - Matchlocks are just plain fun - if you can't get an original get a new build: I have 1570's style built by Rudyard - 44cal - 'Dutch' snapping- style. It's really a whole new experience; the speed of ignition surprises a lot of people - they just go. Shot mine at Pforzheim in 1989 and Rudyard shot it at the Gunmakers match at Friendship on my way home . John Bivins, no less; was heard to remark "Jesus that m***** was quick".
But be careful they can bite - you have a smouldering match around Black Powder they don't need to meet until the right moment.

I recall the Gunmakers match, its all about barracking & trying to put off the shooter. I don't recall John Bivins actual words but I do recall the pregnant pause just after the shot & some one remarking some thing like "Oh a matchlock Ile go get a coffee and come back to see it fire" " Before I shot . All the books tell us the matchlock was too cumbersome to shoot flying birds probably true enough with a big military musket but not true of a lighter sporting gun such as I made a 12 bore common lock piece used at shows to shoot flying clays even straight up' Over the belt 'ones' Driven' birds.
I've hunted 7 days at a time with my rifled matchlock . Yes care is needed and under standing is required but its' doable 'enough once you get the right mindset. Any of you reading this are probably already using muzzle loaders by choice so your already half way there .I made two the same as 'Bucks Counties' gun. His has" Build a better Matchlock & the World will beat a path to your door" underneath the barrel & the other , made for a Boiler makers Union Rep had '.''Matchlock shooters of the World Ignite !"" You have nothing to loose but your Brains !." attributed to Karl Marks . (Incidentally I once spent a night with Karl Marks in Highgate London , Didn.t know till dawn Not a very lively fellow as I recall.)
Regards Rudyard

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Mind- set when shooting is very important as you say, Ruyard!

 

[Rudyard]

Karl Marks didnt say too much it was Highgate Cemetry . A port in a storm you might say, I figure dead men don't bite & nobody in their right mind would be in a Cemetry at Night . But then its not people in their right mind you have to worry about .The Youth hostel was closed and I wasnt
going to go looking for other digs hence the grave yard .an 'opportune 'port in a storm'. Mary Kingsley is in there too but I didn't then know or Ide have paid my respects .Definatly a 'Skookum Tum tum ' Woman only she explored darkest equatorial West Africa not the Pacific North West . I don't know if she had a revolver but she did have a Brolly And she knew how to use it !.
'Regards Rudyard

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Mary did have a revolver old sport, but never had to use it.
I think I am right in saying she once pointed it at a porter who became too familiar, and decorum was restored.

 

[Rudyard]

She had the view that shooting Gold coast dwellers with Sniders was fair return for there use of ' Horrid scatterguns 'and canoeing amongst the Fangs who filed their teeth to look more fearsome on the lower Niger river . She died tending Boer families but was buried in Highgate. REE markable woman, sort of the female version of Cyten.
Regards Rudyard.
Who also wandered about trough Equatorial West Africa in his youth .

 

[Colm Byrne]

Not used to metric but seems heavy doesn't look too bad ,had a long hard life. Ide leave it ' attic pristine'. What state the bore ?. Like' Pukka' says they are often rough its probably a forged breach end not threaded but there stout and relatively safe just a bother to clean particularly down near the breach as they often have a built-in design anti chamber .
Welcome to the fold of matchlock students. Iv'e been round them 60 years and still don't know the half of it but its fun learning .
Regards Rudyard

Thanks for this input, here is a few photos of down barrel, over all the gun is in good condition, have you any tips on how to clean up down the breech?

 

[Colm Byrne]

You will have noticed no swiveling pan cover Colm.
Some never used one, and the powder was pressed into the bottom of the pan and stuck. Some had roughened pans to help hold the powder in.
Others though, had a cover that slipped on sideways, so it fitted under the pan as well as over. Yours being nice and square cold have been this type.
Just noticed it Does have a kind of unusual rudimentary sideplate.... Id still say a pretty early one though.

Can you give the breech a rub with your thumb, Colm?
I am thinking there may be some koftgari still present.

Thanks Pukka
I don't think the breech has any as I did as advised by wiping it slightly around, I did notice this bit towards the muzzle area I thought it was brass but now believe it might be a bit of gold, not sure though.