Matchlock Pistols did they exist?

[Ironage451]

I'm having a discussion with friends and the topic of Matchlock pistols came up. I'm being told they never existed. Is this true or is there evidence they did exist?

 

[earlwb]

Yes they used to make matchlock pistols. They were popular from around 1540 through 1650. I think that the early ones were handgones with a short wood end piece. Later they started looking more like a pistol. But these matchlock pistols were not small and tended to be quite large. There were also the matchlock jailer's key guns too. A large key that could shoot. The key guns were arguably the smallest matchlock pistols.

 

[Ironage451]

Thanks for that.

 

[Artificer]

Back in the 1990's, one team Member from the U.S. International Muzzle Loading Team found an example of one from the 17th century that had a much more modern grip than normally seen in the time period. I don't remember if it was from seeing it in a Museum on the Continent or from pictures from a Museum. The grip shape was more on the order of Mid to late 18th century pistol stocks. It also had both a front and rear sight and as such, was far ahead of the time period.

Now for International Muzzle Loading competition, such documentation is mandatory or they won't allow one to compete with a reproduction that can't be proven.

I was shown photographs of the pistol, but since it was too early for any period I did, I did not get copies and can not remember more about it, other than it came from Italy or Spain.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

After Japan closed itself to the rest of the world they would have a long history of making matchlocks. Guns were never super popular in shogante japan and they never developed any other ignition system. They went from matchlock to breechloaders after Perry. They had made many small and very fine matchlock pistols.
In India and Pakistan small matchlock pistols would be a cottage industry well in to British empire times. Some were very fine, on the best woods and inlayedcwith stone and shell.

 

[earlwb]

Yes some of the matchlock pistols were very well done with a lot of artistry involved.

Asian matchlock pistol:

A Germanic replica matchlock pistol:

A Elizebethan style matchlock pistol

Another example:

And one example of a matchlock key gun

 

[earlwb]

and a Japanese example of a matchlock pistol

 

[Artificer]

The oldest gun I ever worked on was an original Japanese Tanagashima that was at least 300 years old when I worked on it at the World Championships in 1996.

The absolutely amazing thing to me is I have seen not only leaf springs made from brass/bronze on Japanese matchlocks, but even more awe inspiring were coiled flat springs made from the same material. Not only that, but after 200 or more years of age they still retained spring tension.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

:hatsoff: It would scare the manure out of me as to do much more then touch a 300 year gun, then I would want linen gloves on :grin:

 

[ChrisPer]

Like this?

Modern replica Japanese one, handmade

I dont think ML Forum likes us to link other forums, but on Facebook search for the group Matchlock and Wheellock Guns and join. A few days ago someone posted several pictures of a breechloading matchlock pistol from a museum near Coburg. I am trying to figure how to post.

I believe this is POSSIBLY real, but its a breechloader which is very costly, but a searlock (ie not a snap-matchlock) with a long sear lever and petronel butt almost. That is a novel collection of features so although its a very interesting piece I think the most likely reason it was made is to captivate firearms collectors - ie a C19 fake or a C17 gunmakers curiosity piece for sales purposes.

But maybe I just don't get the scale and its really a carbine size.

 

[ChrisPer]

False positive! Bolek says its a petronel, not a pistol.

Maybe someone can post the cast-zinc drugstore 'matchlock pistol' again?

 

[earlwb]

Someone a long time ago, outdid everyone with an eight shot revolver. Germany circa 1580. Now you had to manually rotate the cylinder and slide the flash hole cover forward. But it would still be something on the battlefield with a repeater capability.

 

[Tinker2]

Interesting that the touch holes don’t line up with the chambers.
Also not the same number of touch holes as chambers?




Alexander

 

[earlwb]

There are eight touch holes for the eight chambers in the cylinder.

Actually you can simulate it with a piece of paper. If you draw out a circle on a piece of paper and put in eight little circles for the chambers. Then you draw a mark for each touch hole offset, you get eight touch holes to match the chambers with.

 

[hawkeye2]

It would appear that the chain fire phenomenon was known at that time. The frame has a cut just in front of the chambers adjacent to the one lined with the barrel that would seem to have no other purpose than to allow that ball to exit the chamber safely. They serve no function in the loading process as there is plenty of room to load the cylinder on the gun if it were done that way.

 

[Tinker2]

There are eight touch holes for the eight chambers in the cylinder.

Ok, it looked like more chambers than 8




Alexander

 

[rickystl]

You might find this interesting from a top expert on 400-700 year old European firearms. Unfortunately, he is now deceased.

One of the most cryptic myths is 'the European matchlock pistol', often alleged to have been in use from the early 16th c.


First of all we should define a matchlock pistol, strictly confining it to a small and single-handed firearm that was actually ignited by an attached matchlock mechanism. Just any short 'handgonne' without a matchlock mechanism which had to be ignited externally by either a hand-held length of matchcord, an igniting iron or a linstock is NOT a matchlock.

There are many 'reproductions' around, all claiming to be made 'after an original' but none of these 'originals' has actually ever been presented.


Original European period artwork does not give one single evidence of any firearm employing a matchlock mechanism and light and short enough to be meant for single-handed use.

On the other hand we cannot exclude categorically that they existed, however useless as they must have been; remember, pistols in the 16th c. were only used on horseback and all pieces, both actually surviving and such depicted in period works or art, are mounted with a wheellock which in those days was called the self-igniting lock, in contrast to the matchlock.

It is also true that in Japan and other Far Eastern countries matchlock pistols seem to have been in use since the 16th c., and they all are based on (and were made in the same, almost unaltered style for centuries as) samples imported from Central Europe.


Only one single and completely original 16th c. matchlock pistol is known to have survived but it is clearly an exemptive 'high-tech' weapon: with three manually turned barrels, which actually makes it a matchlock revolver. Each barrel is fitted with its own pan and pivoting cover, plus rear sight with an additional tube and bead foresight; no provision for a trigger guard.
It is made in clearly North Italian (Brescian?) style, ca. 1530's, and preserved in the Doges Palace Venice, inv.no. B 83: 53 cm long overall, the barels 29.9 cm, bore, 10 mm, weight 1490 grams (attachments).

In the reserve collection of the Ashmolean Museum Oxford, I detected and photographed a detached bundle of three barrels, obviously from the same type of firearm but with an additional muzzle ring including a ramrod recess; on two of the barrels the faint rest of an unidentified maker's mark can be seen, and two of the sighting tubes are missing (attachments below).

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=141167

That's it for European matchlock pistols. Worldwide.

 

[Flintfan69]

Many years ago (mid 1990's catalog?), the Rifle Shoppe used to list a matchlock pistol parts set. Was dropped from later catalogs. Never was interested in making one, so I never inquired to what became of that particular parts set. It was an interesting pistol though.

I actually bought the set of antique pistol pictures/blueprints for their line of 17th century pistols, the matchlock is included in it. I have it someplace I think...

 

[Hermanoshawken]

In Spain, the artisan ARSA, makes an excellent replica matchlock pistol (Japanese Tanzutsu).Greetings.
http://www.avancargas-arsa.com/paginas/armas/tanzutsu.htm

 

[V1000convert]

Have a look at the Nihontomessageboard you wil find lots of matchlocks there .