matchlock's and modern world view

[dyemaker]

It's only out of place if the ignition system didnt exist in the time represented, that's my logic. I may get scolded or it tho. I recall seeing a Dutch target ''wheellock'' with matchlock ignition as if done that way for matchlock only events. I may be drawing conclusions however. Sometimes there is a renewed interest in old times. I really don't know but this may be the case in the time period of of that pistol. It sounds interesting to me.

 

[Wes/Tex]

There are definitely some "combo" ignition versions still extant that had both match and either wheel lock or 'snap'(early flint) ignition systems on the same lock plate. Which may have acted as 'back up ' to which is still debated. There's always the chance it was experimental, unfortunately, we can't ask the makers.

 

[Alden]

I didn't know there was any debate.

When I was a kid a former "old" three-volunteer-tours-in-country Vietnam Staff Sargent Pathfinder of the 101st Airborne (the Screaming Eagles were not Air"mobile" yet) said to always carry as much ammo as you reasonably can. What the hell good is a gun without ammo?" he rhetorically asked.

They would have discovered this for themselves in their own way in the 16th C.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Don't know if it was a problem with ammunition supple as much as an ignition reliability issue with the double locks. Either that or the guy wasn't sure this new flint/pyrite trick was going to pan out...so to speak! :thumbsup:

 

[Alden]

"pan out." Boo, hiss! :rotf:

Yeah, similar issues -- wheelocks were fairly complicated mechanisms for their time. For hundreds of years the technology of firearms was a progression of ignition systems and modifications to same. I can see someone wanting a backup gun, or spare slowmatch ignition system, and have always understood extant examples as just that.

 

[cynthialee]

My bet is that these dual ignition firearms were for bragging rights and presentation. Or the guy who made it just didn't trust the newer wheellock to function right?
Perhaps the matchlock is a back up. Sorta like the prepper gun of its' day maybe?

 

[Alden]

That's what I'M sayin... What good is having a complicated gun, ready to fire at a moment's notice at all times, that may not.

As Teleoceros says: "slowmatch forever."

 

[robinghewitt]

What good is having a complicated gun, ready to fire at a moment's notice at all times, that may not.

The cavalry didn't have a lot of choice they had to use wheelies and apart from them... the Germans, the um, err?

 

[Wes/Tex]

The cavalry didn't have a lot of choice they had to use wheelies and apart from them... the Germans, the um, err?

I don't see matchlocks being a lot of help during the typical cavalry charge, unless held by the small end...and then to quote Looney Tunes, "El Ka-bong!!"

 

[Alden]

Why?

Here is an early GERMANIC matchlock pistol...



'course wheelocks DID have their advantages.

Hey, did you know English is a Teutonic language!?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Hey, did you know English is a Teutonic language!?

Absolutely! Close friend maintains it's not a language but a patois that began the first time a Norman knight tried to get in the bloomers of a Saxon barmaid! :haha:

The matchlock in the photo is perfect for the period. My question dealt with the usability of a weapon that had an open cover on horseback. You'd have to have a great juggling ability and a horse with one hellof'a sense of humor! :thumbsup:

 

[robinghewitt]

There was another wheely user, apart from the cavalry and the Germans, that thing with the exposed spring and chain. The Tsinke or Tchink, something like that, my brain is a bit foggy.

 

[cynthialee]

Does igniting the pan extinguish the fire on the match by blowing the head of the coal off the string?

 

[Alden]

CL;
No, not usually, though it can. But straaange things do happen around slowmatch... I would say you are more likely to have your matchcord start burning in another place once you fire than going out if it is good match...

 

[cynthialee]

I can see using a matchlock rifle for a hunt, but it would be a serious PITA for a day of targets.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I can see using a matchlock rifle for a hunt, but it would be a serious PITA for a day of targets.

A lot depends on the targets! Actually, 'target shooting' was a whole different ballgame at the beginning of firearms production and use. Earliest records indicate that by 1500 there were regular shooting matches being held in Europe at about 200 yards, shooting at the center mark of a 5 foot circle, all with smoothbores...when you consider rear sights were virtually unheard of and many of the early stock designs didn't even allow the guns to held to the shoulder, the results are amazing. Some old illustrations show them being braced against the chest, upper thigh front or even pressed against the cheek.

One match held in Zurich, Switzerland, in Sept., 1504 was set up so that the shooters each fired from a cubicle about the size of a wooden phone booth. Similar structures, hopefully well built or armored, were down range between the target butts so spotters could mark the hits with cards attached to long poles...sort of like the military used til recently, a miss being signaled by a wave of the marker and called 'maggie's drawers'...whoever Maggie may have been!

These shoots had some set-in-stone rules about loading and even voiding a shot that didn't penetrate the target...no light loading here! One period shoot was done at a range of 805 feet. As time went on, crossbows and archers were eventually dropped from competition as the competition heated up. Some shoots even had full scale cut-outs of mounted knights running in hand cranked troughs for the more talented! This was no game for these guys since the loser ...,"That unfortunate man was seized by jesters, who acted as prizemasters, and was hauled before the crowd(audience) to hear his shame proclaimed loudly and listen to the sneering comments about his talents, his probable depravity and his home life. Into his arms the jesters thrust a sow with piglets-the traditional ****y prize for shooting events-and the final indignity came as they threw him upon a bench, beat him with bladders, slapsticks and other clowning gadgets and berated him for having had the nerve to enter the contest." Imagine that happening at 'your' local range...then, again!!??

Didn't keep folks from trying though. One shoot in Rottweil, Germany had 218 shooters firing 18 shots each...one guy got them all; five got 17 of 18;7 got 16 of 18 and at least 37 managed 13 hits or more...the loser got the 1500's version of Larry, Moe & Curly!! Yuk..Yuk..Yuk! :wink: :haha:

 

[ChrisPer]

The matchlocks used at my club give very high scores competing directly with flintlocks. They are snap-matchlocks and show fast locktime.

 

[Alden]

THAT'S fire and smoke! Cool, er hot, pic Chris.

Cynthia Lee -- note the flaming projectiles shooting out of the pan.

 

[cynthialee]

Wouldn't it be wiser to have only a 4-6 inch piece of slowmatch on the gun?
When it gets too small to use, put in a new piece.
Because that dangling piece of cord would certainly get in my way.

 

[Alden]

Maybe, if you can remember to and have the opportunity to light a new piece and afford to throw out one of every inch or so of six inches of match. Reality is they lit a rope and walked around all day with it on patrols. Lit both ends in a battle... You need that fire immediately available at all times.