Minutemen with Fusils?

[Smokey Plainsman]

During our war for independence, whereupon so many brave American patriots fell so we can be free from tyranny today (God bless their souls), do you think any of the minutemen and patriots carried French made Fusil de Chasse trade guns?

I’m having one made for me and am just curious if they were ever used to battle the redcoats. Thoughts on the matter?

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

I do not know about any specific use of French FdCs in the Revolution, but Robert Rogers, in his journals, makes reference to using one outside of Fort Ticonderoga during the French and Indian War. I am sure that militias used whatever they could get their hands on!

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Loyalist Dave]

During our war for independence, whereupon so many brave American patriots fell so we can be free from tyranny today (God bless their souls), do you think any of the minutemen and patriots carried French made Fusil de Chasse trade guns?

I’m having one made for me and am just curious if they were ever used to battle the redcoats. Thoughts on the matter?

So the question is sorta broad.
Minutemen were specific militia companies, and not present in every colony. So while every Minute Company was militia, not every militiaman was a minuteman.

"Patriots" is a much broader term, and really can cover anybody who opposed British forces in North America, who also was not a member of a foreign military on the continent to help the Continental Army.

So the question when it comes to minutemen needs refining, as to location and what were the regulations for the arms the men were to provide?
For example, the "public arms" of Maryland were always a form of musket, so would accept a bayonet, and would not have been French leading up to the AWI (but Dutch muskets ??? maybe were there). So in the area where you're thinking, what was the law, and what were the men expected to provide?

YET when one reads an order from Annapolis to the county "minute companies" of the Eastern Shore in Maryland, we find:

January 14th, 1776
..., That the committee of observation for Kent county, [Maryland] furnish such of the public arms in their possession as may be necessary to arm
such men of the said minute companies as have not good arms of their own, and if there shall not be sufficient of the public arms in the possession of the said committee, then it is earnestly recommended to the committees of observation for the said counties of Dorchester, Queen Anne's, and Kent, and of the adjacent counties, to borrow such arms from the inhabitants of the said counties as may be necessary to arm the said companies; which arms so borrowed, shall be valued, and a receipt passed therefor, to the end that the owners may be paid for the same by this province, in case the said arms be not returned in good order; and it is recommended to the said inhabitants, to lend such spare arms, as they have, and may be necessary for the service aforesaid.

So they were "borrowing" spare arms from the civilians, to meet the arming needs of the companies..., or at least they were authorized to do so.

THAT might mean a Fusil or Trade Gun or a Fowler, because the males from 16 to 50 years of age would have been required to maintain something like a musket with a cartridge box and bayonet, but the SPARE arms would've been extras, perhaps those not suited to militia use...meaning rifles or more likely some sort of fusil/fowler/trade gun.

Now would the company commander have accepted something not of military caliber? Wouldn't the owner have ammo for the gun and probably a mold? Would the C.O. of the company have a choice? He needs guns for his men.

So figuring out and narrowing down the area, and then if there might be enough leeway in the laws to allow such a gun as a French Fusil, and perhaps you might even be able to determine a likely way such a gun would come into the possession and use of a person in a British colony. Maryland was also a heavy maritime colony, and traded with colonies that had direct borders with French or former French lands, so..... what about in the area where you are thinking ???

LD

 

[Artificer]

During our war for independence, whereupon so many brave American patriots fell so we can be free from tyranny today (God bless their souls), do you think any of the minutemen and patriots carried French made Fusil de Chasse trade guns?

I’m having one made for me and am just curious if they were ever used to battle the redcoats. Thoughts on the matter?

Maybe the French Settlers that offered aid to George Rogers Clark's Virginians in the Illinois country may have had them.

However, look at the "Hunting Fowler, ca. 1730 to 1760 in the link below. Those guns could easily be mistaken for Fusils de Chasse and could have served for a Militia Man's Firelock.

Hunting Guns in Colonial America (ladybemused.com)

Gus

 

[George]

A good original document, LD, do you know the source?

Spence

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you guys!

 

[Leadball loader]

During our war for independence, whereupon so many brave American patriots fell so we can be free from tyranny today (God bless their souls), do you think any of the minutemen and patriots carried French made Fusil de Chasse trade guns?

I’m having one made for me and am just curious if they were ever used to battle the redcoats. Thoughts on the matter?

In the history of Bunker Hill by Nathaniel Philbrick he quotes an Ebenezer Banccroft using his venerable musket taken from the French in Canada to escape as the British surged into the works.
I suspect many F&I veterans in New England had French guns from their service.
LBL

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A good original document, LD, do you know the source?

Spence

I forgot to give the source....

Archives of Maryland Online

LD

 

[smoothshooter]

During our war for independence, whereupon so many brave American patriots fell so we can be free from tyranny today (God bless their souls), do you think any of the minutemen and patriots carried French made Fusil de Chasse trade guns?

I’m having one made for me and am just curious if they were ever used to battle the redcoats. Thoughts on the matter?

They would have used any kind of firearm available, with the possible exception of matchlocks.

 

[satwel]

I once read, though I can't remember where, that when the fortress at Louisburg surrendered to combined British and New England forces (which happened twice, in 1745 and 1758) many of the fusil-de-chasse muskets, both fully assembled as well as parts held in the armory made their way down into New England and influenced the design of civilian hunting arms for decades.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have a copy of the book "The History of the Weapons of the American Revolution" by George Neumann. There are many pictures of fowling guns, fusils and of course the many models of country specific Arms. Many of the fowling guns and the fusils show evidence of modification to comply with military regulations. Some of the older pattern muskets have been restocked with American woods such as curly maple or cherry.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

They would have used any kind of firearm available, with the possible exception of matchlocks.

Which was the point of my previous post.

What would've been available to the OP's area, OR to the persona the OP portrays if he portrays a specific type of person from a specific geographic area?

A French Fusil de Chase is a lot more likely in New York near Canada, than in Georgia, for example. In Georgia, an older Spanish musket is more likely than the French fusil.

LD

 

[smoothshooter]

Which was the point of my previous post.

What would've been available to the OP's area, OR to the persona the OP portrays if he portrays a specific type of person from a specific geographic area?

A French Fusil de Chase is a lot more likely in New York near Canada, than in Georgia, for example. In Georgia, an older Spanish musket is more likely than the French fusil.

LD

The Mississippi river trade alone would have ensured that French fusils were in widespread use in all colonies and all across the frontier areas North-South-East-West.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Mississippi river trade alone would have ensured that French fusils were in widespread use in all colonies and all across the frontier areas North-South-East-West.

"Would have ensured" and "widespread"?

That's a supposition. One would need to show they were present to make that assertion.
You may indeed be right, but until a lot of data is put forth...especially since were that true the British would've encountered a lot of French Fusils in the hands of Colonial Militia and they don't seem to have done so.

LD

 

[smoothshooter]

Well, we will never know the answer to that question for sure, but the sheer numbers ( tens of thousands ) imported by the French into Canada and New Orleans for the Indian trade and French colonists would indicate their use everywhere in greater or lesser quantities depending on region. And they were imported for over a hundred years to boot.
Perhaps I will dig out Hamilton’s “ Frontier Guns “ book and refresh my memory on import quantities if I can find it.
Let’s not forget that a militiaman could very well have entered active military service with one kind of gun ( French fusil ? ) and finished out with a different one out of necessity or opportunity. Most would have wanted a gun that would shoot either the .69 or .75/.78 caliber ammunition that would have been issued by the colonial or local government at no cost to the soldier.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well some could, some could not.

Some colonies specified what the militia man HAD to have, and there were fines for not having the arms. Maryland is one example.

Some colonies specified, but didn't enforce any penalties if the militia member showed up without a gun. Virginia was famous for recording militia musters with fellows without a gun. The infamous book Arming America by Michael Bellesiles, which has been soundly debunked (the man is a fraud), claimed that the lack of guns in the hands of the men at the militia musters of Virginia was proof they didn't own any firearms..., deliberately ignoring the fact that since there was no penalty enforced, the men then could decline militia service during an emergency as they were on record as having no gun, and IF the colony still demanded service at least they didn't have to come out-of-pocket for a gun and ammo, the muster rolls show requests from militia officers for the colony to supply arms.

So while the import numbers are a good starting point for a hypothesis..., it isn't proof. Alas, the French system was so corrupt compared to the English and the Dutch, that the latter two appear almost alter-boy-ish by comparison. So if the French import records are based on what was sent..., well you have lots of other places where they could've been diverted. Even if off loaded at a port... they could easily have been diverted to a new destination. The Caribbean, South America, and Africa were likely destinations. Again, one would be noting some quantities of French fusils captured by the Brits during engagements and occupations in all of the colonies where operations were conducted during the AWI if the fusil were widespread and common. We don't seem to find such.

Further the population of Canada in 1775 was 90,000, and Spanish Louisiana's population went from 18,000 to 32,000 from 1777 - 1784. More than enough to absorb "tens of thousands" of French fusils before any were traded to English speakers or to Indians, even if tens of thousands of them were shipped in one year..

LD

 

[Leadball loader]

I once read, though I can't remember where, that when the fortress at Louisburg surrendered to combined British and New England forces (which happened twice, in 1745 and 1758) many of the fusil-de-chasse muskets, both fully assembled as well as parts held in the armory made their way down into New England and influenced the design of civilian hunting arms for decades.

In 1745 Louisburgs arms were kept by the Colonial forces that captured it but in 1758 the British Army and Navy controlled the arms captured and Colonial participation was minimal.
LBL