ML buffalo hunting???

[Big Sky Trapper]

Well this fall Ive signed up for a fair chase private buffalo hunt here in montana. I want to use a ML for this. Now today My neighbor had a cow that needed put down in bad way, and knew of my up comming hunt.

So I loaded my .50 flinter up. results not what I expected. load was 120 grains 3f over the usual PRB. range 25-50 yards. FIVE shots still not down. Two complete pass throughs. (ended this with a .45 Long colt between the eyes) All good shots if this was normal big game. And size wise a cow to a buff pretty close.

Now ???? for my fall hunt should I look at getting a 58 barrel... or ????? I cant see any better real world test than what I just did, And for my hunt would like things right. Your opinions??

 

[gmww]

I killed a 2 year old bull with my ML. I was using a .54 cal Cabela's Hawken. The conical was a Great plains. At approximately 50 yards, it took two hits just behind the shoulder. It took out the liver and a lung if I recall correctly. The two conicals did not exit.

The first shot had no effect and I waited 10 mins. The second shot was 2" from the first and the bull laid down. It still took another 10 mins. to expire.

Out of curiosity where are you going? I'd like to take another bull. I'm out of meat.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Buffalo shot with a .50 were usually shot with conicals. If they only had a PRB, they would use the Indian technique of shooting the animal in the hump, which would paralyze the animal, so it could be dispatched with a close shot to the head, or even by slitting its throat.

I would recommend you get a .58, or .62 barrel to use for that Fall Buffalo hunt, as only at that diameter, does the weight of a patched round ball have enough power to penetrate the animal, and kill it cleanly. YOu might want to look first at available conicals in those calibers, and buy a barrel that give the optimum Rate of Twist( ROT) for that conical. It doesn't have to be going fast- most of the loads I see for minie balls up to 570 grains for the .58 are moving at under 750 fps -- to kill, and you probably will have a relatively close shot on the ranch, anyway. Don't expect the animals to be shy of humans, but they aren't tame, either.

The .58 RB weighs 260 grains, and the .62 RB weighs 325 grains. Both balls weigh substantial amounts, as they are over half an ounce. If you will do penetration testing, you will see that they plow through lots of flesh and bone. I think either of them will prove adequate on buffalo.

 

[pmwest]

8 bore OC sporting rifle

This should be adequate. :wink:

 

[oletymepreacher]

In 2005,in Kansas, I used the Pedersoli Kodiak side by side 72 caliber to take a buff at 100 yards, using 90 grs of GOEX 2F. Took two shots for kill, one through the lungs just behind and above the elbow, second in the hump.Hump shot did not put down. Both round balls sailed through. Best eating meat. Another guy in camp got his buff with one shot out of a Lyman .54, 100 grs 2F, launching a round ball. Good luck on your hunt.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I'd recommend a .62 for large game. This moose was taken with a .610PRB pushed by 200gr's of 2FF out of my Jager rifle. The bedded bull jumped up and ran straight away. The ball caught up to him at about 50yd's hitting him on the inside of the left ham, traveling full length and stopped under the hide just right of the center of the brisket. He went less than 100yd's. That shot probably wouldn't have been possible with a lesser gun and load and I wouldn't have tried it with less than I had.

 

[boar]

Read the book Born out of Season. Marshal Hooker killed 3 with a gun not even a 45. Was a gun copied after one of Boones. He said the heart in Buffalo real low. Dilly

 

[kevthebassman]

I'd recommend a .62 for large game. This moose was taken with a .610PRB pushed by 200gr's of 2FF out of my Jager rifle. The bedded bull jumped up and ran straight away. The ball caught up to him at about 50yd's hitting him on the inside of the left ham, traveling full length and stopped under the hide just right of the center of the brisket. He went less than 100yd's. That shot probably wouldn't have been possible with a lesser gun and load and I wouldn't have tried it with less than I had.

Now if one were to listen to the gunrags, such a kill would only have been possible if shooting one of the brand-new, Remchester .458 Super Short Belted Ultra Magnum, pushing a 450 grain Kryptonite bullet (only $179.99 per box of 20) to a velocity of 4250 fps. :barf:

Certainly it couldn't be done with a lowly round ball, which is widely known to be the worst projectile of all time,(and a very poor source of advertising revenue) despite being used to great effect by everyone since the first firearm was invented to 150 or so years ago. One wonders how they ever survived.

:shake: :shake: :shake:

Nice moose by the way!

 

[BillinOregon]

Big Sky:
Please do keep us informed. And regarding your experience putting down a cow with a .50 prb, I agree that I would want more poop for a bison. That's not to say a .50 wouldn't drop a bison under some circumstances: consider how many fell to the .50-70. I'd probably want a conical though, at minimum. Better would be a bigger bore.

 

[Big Sky Trapper]

Lots of good answers here. All seem right....have some serious pondering to do.....We'll let know what comes about here.....

 

[Mountainman56]

Have you given any consideration to trying a double ball load? I haven't tried them myself but I've heard tell it works well. Once we get through harvest here at the nutfarm I'm going to do some experimenting.

 

[BrownBear]

I'd sure get yourself one of those anotomy charts like they used to put in Peterson's Hunting mag. Maybe they still have them on line. Take a close look at buffalo anotomy and get in a good heart shot for a quicker kill. Lung shots will kill too, but take longer to drop the animal.

I've been in the followup of several buffalo kills, and they aren't all that tough with the right shot. But in a fair chase setting, do your hosts the favor of putting it down as quick as possible. Those boogers can go awhile and get into some real nasty stuff if you don't, and recovery of the carcass can turn into a project.

After a poor shot we ended up with four of us on horseback dragging on one to get it up out of a brushy draw just so we could gut it. Then we traded out for a jeep to drag it to a flat enough spot where we could get the horse trailer to haul it out with. If it had dropped within 50 yards of where it was hit we could of pulled the trailer right up to it, but we geed and hawed on that sucker for 4 hours before we managed it.

And hump shots? Never heard of such a thing, and after butchering a couple of humps I sure don't see anything vital there till you get way down low to the spine. If a hump shot is on your list, I'd carry a fork so you can eat that sucker where he finally falls, cuzz odds are you aren't going to want to pack it out.

 

[cptleo1]

My take on it:

They seem to die pretty easy it just takes them a while to do it.

The anatomy charts talked about above are an excellent idea.

I am a firm believer in the double lung shot will kill amything on the planet, the question becomes how long does it take to do it.

If a single ball thru the lungs won't do it quickly I doubt 2-3 will do it much quicker so in the case of Mr. Bison I also would have to lean to the heart shot.

Due to the large size of the critter I also would lean heavily toward the .62.

My favorite caliber of all is the .54 and have no doubt it will kill Mr. Buff stone dead ,agian the question how long it takes.

As much as I love my .54s, a .62 pushed by 125gr of FF totes a whole lot more thump to it.

As far as the hump shot goes - I have serious doubts about that one,very serious doubts.

Might want to check on some of the archery sites,
shot placement is REALLY important to them and they are always willing to share good info.

Keep us posted and take plenty of pictures.

 

Buffalo shot with a .50 were usually shot with conicals. If they only had a PRB, they would use the Indian technique of shooting the animal in the hump, which would paralyze the animal, so it could be dispatched with a close shot to the head, or even by slitting its throat.

Respectfully, Paul, I don't know where you're getting this, but its bad advice. Fist of all, bison were shot for decades or centuries (in the case of woodland bison) with PRB before slugs and breechloaders were ever thought of. They do 'take a lot of killing' if you don't know their anatomy or can't shoot, but the hump is frankly where a lot of the stuff you want to eat is. Heart and brain are the best two shots. The heart is a lot lower on bison than you would expect, pretty much right off the elbow when broadside. The brain shot is best up close and slightly quartering away. Wouldn't try it with a PRB any other way. I've seen bison botched with .300 and 7mm mags as well as a .54 with slugs. I've also seen them taken with one shot from a .270 through the heart with a 150 gr bullet. They are amazingly tough animals. Osborne Russell gave it up as a bad job after 25 balls because he didn't know where to shoot them. I've seen similar, including one that started with a hump shot as you suggest. Its hard to watch.

NDNZ killed them with 40-50# short draw (20-22") bows and PRB loaded NW guns. Neither of these are big stoppers as they were used. When running bison, they'd generally shoot forward through the liver, into the vitals and let them run themselves out. You don't want to do that in most cases, unless you really want to work your jaw muscles.

Look up the bison's anatomy and take good shots. Shoot a yearling if you can (I'm a bit of a baby-killer when it comes to hunting). I've eaten part of a 7 year old cow once and 'chewy' didn't do her justice. The term 'poor bull' was and is pretty much the case with the old boys. If you want a big head from a bull, figure on a lot of burger and sausage.

My $0.02...

Sean

PS The average trade rifle of the Rocky Mountain fur trade ranged from .49-.53 and you can bet they were too cheap to throw 125 grains of powder down the pipe.

 

[paulvallandigham]

CptLeo, and Sean: I want to thank you both for the comments. I personally have always thought the " Hump shot " was a bunch of bull! ( NO pun intended). I believe that the Indians, using even shorter bows and arrows than you mention, Sean, put arrows into the spine, BELOW the hump, but that the authors who wrote about these events didn't have a clue what they were talking about. I do think the Indian was not as concerned about a fast death for a buffalo as we are today, since he was on horseback, and his horse was very good at staying away from a buffalo's horns.

I visited the Museum of Natural History years ago, trying to find visible information on what kind of clothing Illinois Indian tribes wore when the first French explorers arrived here. I looking through the permanent galleries on the American Indian, I found several displays of Plains Indians garb, and weapons. The bows were less than 20 inches long! The arrows were barely more than 12 inches long. They were well made, but I first wondered if these were not children's bows. I found a staff curator to talk to about my project, and also asked about these bows and arrows. He assured me that they were the typical hunting bows for adults and that they were shot beause they shot off horseback, often with the bow parallel to the ground, so that the arrow shaft was supported by bow as it was drawn and released. The bow had to be short because of the limited clearance under the arm for the bowstring when drawn.

All the objects they had were collected after the civil war, and long after the Potowatami and other tribes had been removed to Iowa, Kansas, and Oklahoma territory. The clothing they had on display for the Potowatami included a dark blue loincloth with the French Fleur dis Lis on it, in mustard yellow. Obviously, these were not clothes worn BEFORE the French arrived. They may have been pre-British, and pre-American, but they were not pre-European. I later learned that the Illinois Indians that LaSalle, and Marquette found wore no clothing at all, but simply wrapped animal skins over their shoulders when it was cold. I gave up my search for a proper" French voyageur clothing ensemble unique to the Illinois country.

 

The bows were less than 20 inches long! The arrows were barely more than 12 inches long. They were well made, but I first wondered if these were not children's bows.

Paul,

You're right. Those are kid's bows. look up the 'Encyclopedia of Native American bows, Arrows and Quivers' by Allely and Hamm for examples. Plains bows run 36"-48" for adult unless they are horn. Arrows are usually 24"-28". Having made and shot short sinew backed plains bows, I wouldn't want to try a spine shot on a standing bison, much less a running one (small target and high probability of deflection off bone). Arrows take a long time to make, and you'd most likely right that one off with no meat to show for it. When running bison, you'd generally be a bit behind the animal. This shot would avoid the rib cage, puncture the liver and hit the lungs. Plains arrow points were fairly narrow to maximize penetration. Still, you could figure on that critter running a ways after that shot. I've always figured that would mean lots of lactic acid and tougher meat, as that has been my experience on other game. Still, I always thought this would be a kick with a bow or a fusil.

Sean

 

[Idaho Ron]

I would love to take on a Buff with my 45. I would think that a 475 gr whitworth bullet cast a bit on the hard side would be just the ticket.
One thing to think about is if they had the metabolism of a antelope they would die a lot faster. They are a slow animal, they die slow. Ron

 

[Mulebrain]

Borrowed info!

The lung shot is certainly the easiest and surest. A bison's large lungs make for an easy target. One good shot in the lungs will kill a bull, certainly not instantly, but death is inevitable. As most animals hit in the lungs, they will leave a good blood trail, which is easy to follow. Another advantage of this shot is that there is no damage to edible meat.

Many of the places state .50 and above should work, I however would wish to use larger, say a .58 or .62. I think a well placed lung shot, with the bigger hole would be a better/faster kill!

 

[gmww]

That diagram is where I shot my Buff. My buddy used a 300 WM to the heart and his just reeled up and died. Big contrast compared to my kill.

 

[Herb]

On the brain shot- A friend of mine, Dave, was manager of the Sullys Hill National Game Preserve at Devils Lake, ND in the 1970's. Came time to kill the herd bull so as to replace him with a new blood bull from Valentine NWR. Dave baited the herd of 30 or so bison into the corral and, taking the rifle that came with the job, proceeded to kill that bull. The rifle was an original military Enfield 1917, I think it was, a .30-06. At about 30 feet he shot that bull between the eyes with a 220 grain factory Peters load. The bull shook his head and ran around the corral. Dave said it took him seven shots to the head to wear him down. Then he looked at a bison skull up in the attic of the garage and found that the brain pan is not between the eyes but much higher. At an intersection of lines from the eye to the opposite horn. After that he killed the annual herd reduction with his Rem. 722 .244, probably my handloaded 75 grain loads. Just baited the animals with alfalfa, worked into position and shot the animal on the "X", aiming with his 6X scope. I saw him do it. The animal was dead instantly. So, be very careful of a head shot.

I was on the National Bison Range at Moiese, MT when the manager had to kill a bull that had an eye gouged out. They herded him with trucks into a lane, funneling him into a crowd chute so to kill him. Now, this was the biggest bull I ever saw, either at Sullys Hill, Valentine, or on the Bison Range. He galloped down that lane and hit a railroad tie corner post on his blind side so hard that it knocked him down and out for half a minute or so. The crew got him into the chute and the manager, Jon, offered me the chance to kill him. I had no stomach for slaughtering him, so Jon put the muzzle of that rifle against the skull and dropped him. The rifle was some old, barrel-recoiling Remington .30 auto or some such, probably as old as the refuge. The bull was salvaged for meat, which was given to the Indians.