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Modifying a commercial Murdoch Scottish steel pistol

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Joined
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On another related subject, back in the day, before I discovered there were some fairly reasonable sources for high quality reproduction Scottish pistols, I tried my hand at modifying the common reproduction Murdoch pistol which can be easily had. Of course, these pistols are much too big for one thing but, cosmetically, there are a couple of things that can be done to improve the look and make it more "unique." Here's what I did with some success, I think. (1) I replaced the factory cock with one from a Scottish pistol kit from TRS. These cocks have the circular wing and give the pistol a much better appearance IMHO. You have to use a small flat file to make the fit but that was easy even for a klutz like me. (2) The scroll butt is atrocious on two accounts, the rams-horn design and the vent pick. This modification took a bit more work. I drilled and reamed out the very thick metal on the rams-horns and thinned the metal down by at least half it not a bit more. I then took a propane torch, heated the rams horns and using a pair of large needle-nosed pliers, turned the curve to be much tighter and smaller as were many originals. Not tiny but more in a closed curve. I also punched a series of small "holes" or dings around the outer edge of the curve for decoration. This really enhanced the appearance! (3) I filed and polished down the brass medallions on the grip to make them much thinner and with an outside edge flush with the steel. This gave them a pleasing domed appearance. The next two steps I'll treat as one. I filed the trigger to get rid of the flat stem from the ball to the mechanism so that it was more round in appearance and less like a modern trigger. I also filed away at the vent pick on the butt and made it much smaller and round. In its out of the box state, the vent pick is 3-4x too big. This was the hardest part of the whole project as it's hard to hand file something smaller in a perfect sphere! If I had to do this again, I would get a gunsmith to fit a TRS trigger from the same kit mentioned above and replace the vent pick as well rather than trying to modify it myself. (I have to admit this is what I finally did as these parts are cheap!). And, finally, (5) I blued the steel. I used a cold blue process so I didn't get or want a deep black blue result. As all know, the originals of these pistols seemingly were either blued or browned to resist the elements and what we see today is the result of well-intentioned but overly vigorous cleaning. You know these pistols must have been spectacular with the brass and silver inlays on the blued steel backgrounds! What I got was a finish that was a dull, faded silver/blue that more that anything else took off the shiny new appearance and gave it a more "antiquey" or used look. The only think I didn't do because I couldn't wrap my head around what I wanted as an outcome was to modify the muzzle and give it less of a Flash Gordon ray-gun look. But I have to say, after blueing the finish, this because much less noticeable, again in MHO. I know this sounds like a lot of work but it did not seem to be and was fun. I have six-thumbs and do not do work like this well but I was please by the results and would recommend the project to any likely lad who wanted something that looks better and is not so common as the off-the-shelf product! I'd post some pictures but I sold this pistol many years ago.
 
If ever a post deserved a "THIS POST NEEDS A PHOTO" this one does. It's a shame you don't have any but your excelent description is nearly as good. I have always been fascinated by Scottish pistols but have stayed away from the Indian offerings and the closest I ever came was a brass framed one I bought circa '77.
 
I know the bell metal framed pistol you are referring to. It actually wasn't a bad reproduction except, again, it is a bit larger than the originals. I was lucky to come across one a few years ago and added it to my collection. Thanks, BTW, for the kind remarks. Wish I did have some pictures left!
 
Glenn,

Could you please give me some more info on how you drilled and reamed out the ram's horns to make them thinner? I have got one that I need to work over just like you are describing. Also what is your opinion on whether one of these pistols might have had a brass or bronze touch hole liner?

Thanks!
 
Well, that was a bit of a challenge! I wound up using a Dremel tool with a "rock" type grinder in the form of a cylinder. It took me two of these grinders and it worked just fine. It's slow going but it does a fine job reaming out the hole and keeping them round. as far as touch hole liners, I have never seen an original with this feature. As we know, black powder is corrosive and over a long period the hole gets larger but I don't know if there was ever a liner mechanism. It's such a small thing overall, if you have to do this it shouldn't be an issue. Good luck!
 
Touch hole liners weren't used by the makers turning out these pistols.
 
If ever a post deserved a "THIS POST NEEDS A PHOTO" this one does. It's a shame you don't have any but your excelent description is nearly as good. I have always been fascinated by Scottish pistols but have stayed away from the Indian offerings and the closest I ever came was a brass framed one I bought circa '77.
I assume this is the pistol to which you are referring. It is a good replica of the Waters contract pistol but, of course it post-dates the Jacobite era. I like it for the working Highland lock as much as anything. As a handgun, it makes a good bludgeon!
Horn & Pistol 001.jpg
 
No, this isn’t the type I modified. There are reproductions if the Waters and Bissell government contract pistols available. (The Waters pustol hasn’t been commercially available for years, unfortunately). The one I modified was the “Murdoch” pistol which was an approximation of a Doune_style pistol.
 
Yes that's the pistol I have though I have an earlier version with a polished lock and it's marked Navy Arms. The later casehardened lock version isn't correct but I believe they did it to jump on the casehardened bandwagon. It's a reasonable copy of the Waters and can be improved with a little work though the lock on mine is troublesom, often hanging up on the halfcock and the trigger is terrible. The barrel is thin and they are sometimes found with the dovetail for the hook that holds the barrel to the forearm cut all the way into the bore. An acquaintance had a friend who was a gunmaker fit a rifled barrel to one though I have no idea why, a waste of a good barrel blank in my opinion.
 
Thanks for that, I have never seen an original. They must have been tiny as the Navy Arms gun is not all that large at 11 3/4" OAL and you can only get 2 fingers on the grip.
I have one of these brass stocked models with the polished lock marked Hopkins and Allen on top of the barrel. And yes, you can only get like two fingers around the grip area. Strange. Can't really figure out how to hold and shoot it. LOL When the lock is at half-cock, with a correct size flint (or even smaller), you can't close the frizzen all the way. Appears the horizontal sear engages the hammer to soon in this position. Will have to have this fixed (I hope).

Rick
 
Of course I have one of the Waters pistols and it is pictured in an earlier post. Mine is a Navy Arms version. The grip is quite small and my large hands leave the ring and little fingers touching the tip of the forward lobe and hanging over the bottom of the grip respectively. The earliest Waters pistols produced were equipped with pricker which was screwed into the recess between the lobes. This was apparently abandoned rather quickly since, under recoil, the handle of the pricker would cause injury to the user's hand. A photo of one of these pistols, equipped with the pricker, is in The History of Weapons of the American Revolution by George C. Neumann. I believe that pistols originally equipped with a pricker were modified with the hole for the device being plugged.

I have fired my pistol several times. It is a "singular" experience. Even with light loads the pistol is nearly impossible to control and accuracy is nil. I have also fired one of the Coach Harness pistols and, while it was a bit easier on the hand, accuracy wasn't any better. These are super close range weapons. A photo of one of my firings is attached. I was shooting 30 grs of FFFG in that one - too much powder - and the recoil is not exaggerated!

Regarding shooting, early on when I tried to squeeze the trigger to help with accuracy (Ha!), I found that the sear could protrude during firing and stop the cock from doing its job. The way to prevent this was to operate the trigger with a bit more force and speed. Did not do anything for accuracy but it did prevent accidentally going into half-cock. I can close the pan completely on half cock and am using a fairly large flint for a pistol. The action is a bit "mushy," but it does generate enough sparks to set the priming off consistently. View attachment 8111 View attachment 8111 View attachment 8111
 

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Hello Gents,
I'm reopening up this thread with some insights to my experiences in modifying a modern Scottish ramshorn/scrollbutt pistol (mine was purchased from Dixie GW about 15 years ago)...I actually found an old post of mine on the same subject a few years back...tomorrow I shall post some photos of my modification project, which has languished over the past decade, but now I'm ready to resurrect it and greatly welcome any fabrication insights/suggestions you may have...to keep ye on the edge, I had the inestimable Ed Rayl fabricate a brass barrel!
 
PathfinderNC et al...
Sorry for the delay - had to wait for the morning light to take the pix...attached...
Pix 1: Ed Rayl custom brass barrel versus stock steel barrel; the small brass ball will be fabricated over the existing pricker
Pix 2: General view of the style of ramshorn-butt pistol I am trying to recreate - the color photo is from "The Swords and the Sorrows" (page 70; belonged to James Boswell)
Pix 3: General view of the project thus far
Pix 4: Cut pipe piece will form the extension of the metal stock and barrel channel
Pix 5: Lip of existing end of metal stock/barrel channel - ideally, I would like to braze/weld the extension onto the end to get the longer lines of the Boswell ramshorn, but this is likely my biggest unknown as to whether or not it can be done.
Looking forward to receiving your comments - all and any advice appreciated!
P.S. Does anyone know the whereabouts of Donnie Shearer? I'd like to contact him, if possible...
 

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On another related subject, back in the day, before I discovered there were some fairly reasonable sources for high quality reproduction Scottish pistols, I tried my hand at modifying the common reproduction Murdoch pistol which can be easily had. Of course, these pistols are much too big for one thing but, cosmetically, there are a couple of things that can be done to improve the look and make it more "unique." Here's what I did with some success, I think. (1) I replaced the factory cock with one from a Scottish pistol kit from TRS. These cocks have the circular wing and give the pistol a much better appearance IMHO. You have to use a small flat file to make the fit but that was easy even for a klutz like me. (2) The scroll butt is atrocious on two accounts, the rams-horn design and the vent pick. This modification took a bit more work. I drilled and reamed out the very thick metal on the rams-horns and thinned the metal down by at least half it not a bit more. I then took a propane torch, heated the rams horns and using a pair of large needle-nosed pliers, turned the curve to be much tighter and smaller as were many originals. Not tiny but more in a closed curve. I also punched a series of small "holes" or dings around the outer edge of the curve for decoration. This really enhanced the appearance! (3) I filed and polished down the brass medallions on the grip to make them much thinner and with an outside edge flush with the steel. This gave them a pleasing domed appearance. The next two steps I'll treat as one. I filed the trigger to get rid of the flat stem from the ball to the mechanism so that it was more round in appearance and less like a modern trigger. I also filed away at the vent pick on the butt and made it much smaller and round. In its out of the box state, the vent pick is 3-4x too big. This was the hardest part of the whole project as it's hard to hand file something smaller in a perfect sphere! If I had to do this again, I would get a gunsmith to fit a TRS trigger from the same kit mentioned above and replace the vent pick as well rather than trying to modify it myself. (I have to admit this is what I finally did as these parts are cheap!). And, finally, (5) I blued the steel. I used a cold blue process so I didn't get or want a deep black blue result. As all know, the originals of these pistols seemingly were either blued or browned to resist the elements and what we see today is the result of well-intentioned but overly vigorous cleaning. You know these pistols must have been spectacular with the brass and silver inlays on the blued steel backgrounds! What I got was a finish that was a dull, faded silver/blue that more that anything else took off the shiny new appearance and gave it a more "antiquey" or used look. The only think I didn't do because I couldn't wrap my head around what I wanted as an outcome was to modify the muzzle and give it less of a Flash Gordon ray-gun look. But I have to say, after blueing the finish, this because much less noticeable, again in MHO. I know this sounds like a lot of work but it did not seem to be and was fun. I have six-thumbs and do not do work like this well but I was please by the results and would recommend the project to any likely lad who wanted something that looks better and is not so common as the off-the-shelf product! I'd post some pictures but I sold this pistol many years ago.
Hi Glenn,
If you've got a few minutes, I've got a couple of questions regarding the fabrication methods you used in modifying the Scottish pistol you had reworked...I've done almost everything you've described in your post thus far - you said that you were able to take a "propane torch" to the ramshorn "curls" and were able to turn them - my concern was getting enough heat on the metal using a Worthington MAP/ProGrade torch to soften it to bend and figured I've have to find a blacksmith with either a coal or gas forge for this step in the process. If you have any other details about the heating process, etc., I'd truly appreciate your input... I'll put the pistol I'm working on together and take some pix to give you an idea of where I am in my changes in the design elements...
Kind regards,
Prairie Banditti
 
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