More fun with Pritchett cartridges

[Stantheman86]

I took out my other Parker-Hale Musketoon, that I rarely shoot.....I had about 20 of Brett's .550 Pritchett Cartridges that I filled over a year ago , and figured I'd burn them up.

I keep trying the Pritchetts in the Musketoons and can never decide if the Musketoons don't like them or if it's just me and the short sight radius.

At 100 yards they will do their intended job , they aren't made for target shooting and every one of these would have hit a man sized target. At 200, I popped off about 10 rounds at the 12" x 12" swinger and hit it a few times, those that missed scared the swinger pretty good.

Minies do a little better but it's not like I'm looking for cloverleafs out of a Musketoon.

I tried some REAL bullets and they weren't all that crazy accurate either. Plus after 20 Pritchett bullets gliding down the bore , I wasn't really into using a short starter for a bunch of REALs , those Pritchetts will spoil you.

 

[Military Collector]

I have a question for you on your experience with the Enfield cartridge. I made up some 1960 pattern cartridges like the ones you are using. The issue I'm having is that after I lube the paper cartridges they seem to be tight in the bore and don't go in as easy as you would think. What was your experience loading Brett's paper cartridges in your PH Musketoon? I'm trying to figure out if I need to re evaluate how I'm rolling my cartridges.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have a question for you on your experience with the Enfield cartridge. I made up some 1960 pattern cartridges like the ones you are using. The issue I'm having is that after I lube the paper cartridges they seem to be tight in the bore and don't go in as easy as you would think. What was your experience loading Brett's paper cartridges in your PH Musketoon? I'm trying to figure out if I need to re evaluate how I'm rolling my cartridges.

Just to clarify, the 1861 Pattern doesn't use any paper around the bullet , you take the Minie out of the paper and load it

But if you're making Pritchett cartridges they should easily go down the bore no matter how many shots you've taken

 

[Some_Mook]

But if you're making Pritchett cartridges they should easily go down the bore no matter how many shots you've taken

In reality, the original Pritchett bullet / cartridge did not meet that criteria as evidenced during the Crimean War and into the Indian Rebellion.

The Original Pritchett Bullet design relied on close bullet to bore tolerances to work properly and were nominally sized .568 but due to the lack of precision tolerances in bore and bullets, this design in combat situations and wartime production demands did not perform well, and troops struggled to load them when the barrels became fouled. There were also some issues with the lead becoming oxidized while the prepared cartridges were being shipped and stored before distribution to the troops - the oxidation increased the diameter of the bullet.

The .550 size bullet that was proposed by Edward Boxer solved the issue.

So to the comment by @Stantheman86, if you are using the .550 sized bullets to make your 'Pritchett' cartridges, they should easily go down the bore after repeated firings without cleaning or swabbing the barrel. If you are using .568 or .563 diameter bullets to make your Pritchett cartridges, you will not likely be able to easily load after multiple firings without a need to swab the bore fouling.

 

[Stantheman86]

Here's me shooting the .550's, I fired 50 without cleaning

I have some of the. 568's but I haven't done a lot of shooting with them, I did fire 20 through my Parker-Hale P53 with no problems

 

[Military Collector]

I have a question for you on your experience with the Enfield cartridge. I made up some 1960 pattern cartridges like the ones you are using. The issue I'm having is that after I lube the paper cartridges they seem to be tight in the bore and don't go in as easy as you would think. What was your experience loading Brett's paper cartridges in your PH Musketoon? I'm trying to figure out if I need to re evaluate how I'm rolling my cartridges.

I did mean the 1860 pattern English cartridge with the .550 sized swagged bullet that Brett makes. I bought a box of those bullets(great quality by the way) and a cartridge paper template from forth-armoury.com for the 1860 Enfield Cartridge cartridge that uses the .550 bullet. I wanted to make my own as its part of the fun. I also got Brett's book the "The English Cartridge" when I bought a box of his bullets with clay plugs. Even after getting cotton rag paper the thinnest that I could find made by clearprint and rolling the cartridges extremally tight with no slop around the bullet after lubing them in 100% bees wax as per the original specs they do not go into my bore as easy as videos have shown, even the video by Stantheman86. Before lubing they go in fine. As for lubing, I quickly dip the cartridges for less then a sec so I don't get too much lube built up, and that is where I get the issues of it being too tight with simple easy insertion of the cartridges not being anything like I've seen from the video's of people using the 1860 Pattern Enfield cartridge. I've even taken a couple of my completed cartridges apart to see if the cotton rag paper was soaking up the lube, but it was not, it was holding it on the outside like it should be. So I'm at a lose right now if I'm doing something wrong. Any ideas or suggestions that you all have would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Military Collector]

Here's me shooting the .550's, I fired 50 without cleaning

I have some of the. 568's but I haven't done a lot of shooting with them, I did fire 20 through my Parker-Hale P53 with no problems

Your video was one of the ones that I used for reference on inserting the bullet. Are you using the cartridges made by Brett, by chance?

 

[Stantheman86]

Your video was one of the ones that I used for reference on inserting the bullet. Are you using the cartridges made by Brett, by chance?

Oh yeah I use Brett's cartridges, no way am I making these myself

I roll my own 1863 pattern Minie cartridges, and lube and size my bullets. I'm trying to decide if I shoot enough .58 Minies to start casting or to just keep using my Minie guy for 50 cents per bullet and save my time and labor by supporting a small bullet maker.

The Pritchett cartridges are very complex and I just don't have the patience to make those.

 

[Military Collector]

Oh yeah I use Brett's cartridges, no way am I making these myself

I roll my own 1863 pattern Minie cartridges, and lube and size my bullets. I'm trying to decide if I shoot enough .58 Minies to start casting or to just keep using my Minie guy for 50 cents per bullet and save my time and labor by supporting a small bullet maker.

The Pritchett cartridges are very complex and I just don't have the patience to make those.

I actually found them very easy and fun(depending on you idea of fun) to make. It just bugs me that I've done all the proper research and material procurement and I can't get a repeatable reliability. I think I'm going to have to buy a few of Brett's cartridges and see how far off I am. Ya I've debated on getting all the molds and pot to make my own bullets, but as you said "my time and labor" and I don't really have the time right now.

 

[Stantheman86]

I actually found them very easy and fun(depending on you idea of fun) to make. It just bugs me that I've done all the proper research and material procurement and I can't get a repeatable reliability. I think I'm going to have to buy a few of Brett's cartridges and see how far off I am. Ya I've debated on getting all the molds and pot to make my own bullets, but as you said "my time and labor" and I don't really have the time right now.

I've just gotten so used to shooting the Minie/Burton balls that I kinda "standardized" on them, and I can size them from .575 to .577 depending on the rifle I'm using them in.

I found the Pritchetts to be a little less accurate than Minies but it's too close to really matter.

 

[Some_Mook]

Before lubing they go in fine. ... So I'm at a lose right now if I'm doing something wrong. Any ideas or suggestions that you all have would be greatly appreciated.

Not saying that what I do is the only way, but I ordered a .568 sizing die from Lee (custom order, $50.00) and after I lube my cartridges I run them through the sizing die to 'wipe off' the excess lube. (I cast .550 and size the bullets before making paper cartridges).

YMMV

 

[Military Collector]

Not saying that what I do is the only way, but I ordered a .568 sizing die from Lee (custom order, $50.00) and after I lube my cartridges I run them through the sizing die to 'wipe off' the excess lube.

YMMV

That might be an issue for me as I'm lubing the outside of the paper cartridge as per the 1860 cartridge specs for the Enfield cartridge. I don't see the paper cartridge surviving the sizing process in a sizing die.

 

[Military Collector]

Here's me shooting the .550's, I fired 50 without cleaning

I have some of the. 568's but I haven't done a lot of shooting with them, I did fire 20 through my Parker-Hale P53 with no problems

What powder charge are you using for your Parker Hale Musketoon?

 

[Stantheman86]

What powder charge are you using for your Parker Hale Musketoon?

I used 60 grains of 1.5F. Brett recommends the Old Eynsford 1.5F but the OE 1.5F is impossible to get now

My Parker-Hale Musketoons do not like the .550 Pritchett, at all. They work, but accuracy is terrible. They shoot into 3-4" out of my 3-band P-H P53's though. The Musketoons do way better with a Minie and the P53s do the same or a little better with Minies.

I believe the instructions with the cartridges specified something like 54gr of 1.5F, I figured with my finger in the 60gr flask spout while filling the cartridges, it would come out to about 55-57. In the period they weren't precise with powder charges either.

Maybe the British cartridge makers were more consistent but the American cartridge rollers used a "nominal" 60gr charge that was as low as 50 something in original cartridges found.

The Confederates chose the .568 version to copy, the CS wanted to standardize on the Pritchett and millions went through the blockade, I assume the later .550 but if the CS copied the .568 bullet, maybe England sent them older cartridges

I was reading about US Generals finding 1000s of the Pritchett tubes on the ground after a battle and thinking the Confederates had some experimental ammunition or a new weapon. So they sent the empty tubes and I assume intact cartridges found on dead or wounded soldiers to the Ordnance Dept and the US Ordnance Dept tried to make Pritchetts. But it was too labor intensive so they stayed with the Burton cartridges. There's a whole book about the Pritchett in the Civil War

 

[Some_Mook]

I don't see the paper cartridge surviving the sizing process in a sizing die.

Mine survive.

YMMV

 

[Stantheman86]

.550 Pritchetts at 100, through the Parker-Hale P53. I only fired these two shots from standing

 

[Military Collector]

Mine survive.

YMMV

I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Military Collector]

I used 60 grains of 1.5F. Brett recommends the Old Eynsford 1.5F but the OE 1.5F is impossible to get now

My Parker-Hale Musketoons do not like the .550 Pritchett, at all. They work, but accuracy is terrible. They shoot into 3-4" out of my 3-band P-H P53's though. The Musketoons do way better with a Minie and the P53s do the same or a little better with Minies.

I believe the instructions with the cartridges specified something like 54gr of 1.5F, I figured with my finger in the 60gr flask spout while filling the cartridges, it would come out to about 55-57. In the period they weren't precise with powder charges either.

Maybe the British cartridge makers were more consistent but the American cartridge rollers used a "nominal" 60gr charge that was as low as 50 something in original cartridges found.

The Confederates chose the .568 version to copy, the CS wanted to standardize on the Pritchett and millions went through the blockade, I assume the later .550 but if the CS copied the .568 bullet, maybe England sent them older cartridges

I was reading about US Generals finding 1000s of the Pritchett tubes on the ground after a battle and thinking the Confederates had some experimental ammunition or a new weapon. So they sent the empty tubes and I assume intact cartridges found on dead or wounded soldiers to the Ordnance Dept and the US Ordnance Dept tried to make Pritchetts. But it was too labor intensive so they stayed with the Burton cartridges. There's a whole book about the Pritchett in the Civil War

Ya with Goex under transition/modernization. Hopefully it comes back soon. I've been using Schutzen and Swiss. I know the standard service charge was about 68 grains (2 1/2 drams) of musket powder which is close to 1.5 to 2 FF, but that would be one hell of a wallop in a musketoon. I was thinking 60 grains of 2 FF and working a load from there.

 

[Stantheman86]

Ya with Goex under transition/modernization. Hopefully it comes back soon. I've been using Schutzen and Swiss. I know the standard service charge was about 68 grains (2 1/2 drams) of musket powder which is close to 1.5 to 2 FF, but that would be one hell of a wallop in a musketoon. I was thinking 60 grains of 2 FF and working a load from there.

I just stick with 60gr of either 2F or 3F because it's just easier to remember, and I've never had "bad" results with 60 grains in anything

It took me a long time to get away from the "60gr of 2F and a .575 Minie" idea

A 68 grain charge would just blow probably 20 unburned grains out of the muzzle in a Musketoon

 

[Stantheman86]

For me personally, making 1863 Pattern cartridges is just way easier and just as fun for range shooting. I used to be more of a Purist but then, economy of time, resources and $$ took hold and I use what I can make myself for range fun. I can roll 50 cartridges on a night when I really feel like doing it , and relaxing and enjoying the process. It's satisfying to fill a cartridge box with your own hand rolled cartridges, I almost hate to shoot them up its almost a hobby in itself making cartridges