Morgan's Riflemen

[Joe Zakas]

I need some wise insights. I'm planning a flint build and thought I would try something that might (to me) have an historic attachment. I would like to make a flintlock that might/could have/ maybe be used by a member of Morgan's Riflemen either at Quebec or later in the southern colonies. Since PRB size will determine the stock shaping, I have a question. What would have been a typical caliber used by one of those sharpshooter back during the Revolutionary War?
Thanks for any and all help. :hmm:

 

[Rifleman1776]

You will get a lot of opinions on that point. I have done a lot of reading and have seen many references to calibers in the .42 to .47 range. Calibers were a matter of what the builder fancied or had a mandrel he forged the barrel around. And, barrels were periodically 'freshed' out which enlarged them. Methinks a .45 would fit the period and your needs perzactly.

 

[Joe Zakas]

Thanks,
I was thinking around .45 cal, but my idea and what would have been back then are often two way different things. My first bang with a flint was a .45 Lancaster style when on leave with a Navy buddy at his family farm in Michigan back in 1974. So, a .45 pleases me,
Rifleman1776. Thanks again

 

[George]

John Joseph Henry was a rifleman from Pennsylvania on the march to Quebec in 1775, along with Morgan's riflemen. His canoe overturned in swift water and he lost his rifle. He managed to buy another, and this is what he said of it:

"This gun was short, and carried about 45 balls to the pound. The stock was much shattered, and it was worth about five dollars. Necessity has no law. Never did a gun, ill as its appearance was, shoot with greater certainty, and where the ball touched, from its size it was sure to kill. This observation, trifling as it may seem, ought to induce government to adopt guns of this size, as to length of barrel and size of ball. There are many reasons to enforce this opinion."

45 balls to the pound is .47 caliber.

Spence

 

[Alden]

Um, .50 at a minimum and UP. Actually did a statistical study of this once including a weighted average based on extant arms with provenance and, don't quote me (of which I'm sure I should have no fear), but IIRC it was something like .53.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

.50 and .54 would both be good choices for this early war period. Since the rifle barrels were hammer welded at the forge by hand, they were not real consistent in the caliber that they produced. Although the barrels were hammer-forged around a mandrel, they then had to be drilled out to compensate for any curvature prior to rifling the barrel.

Most ended up in the .50 to .54 range. A rifle might shoot a .47, .51, .55, or anything in between. When you bought a rifle, it came with the mold for the round ball that would fit that particular rifle. Since the cartridges were not mass produced in all the various possible rifle calibers, riflemen carried their ball molds with them and cast their own lead balls for their own rifle.

After the war, the calibers all drifted down a bit and .40 to .45 longrifles became quite common.

Also, during the Quebec Expedition time period, the rifles used had wider butt-plates than they did during the late-war and the post-war era. Thinner butt-plates and deeper crescent shapes became the norm as the caliber went down. Thinner butt-plates and deeper crescents were typical of Golden-Age rifles.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[galamb]

Morgan put together his "bunch" in Winchester Va. So you have to figure at least some of the rifles came from the "local" area (so early Shenandoah builders).

I have read one account that stated Morgan himself carried a rifle built by Adam Haymaker, "crafted to his specific demands" which he paid 25 pounds sterling for (which was noted to be the cost of 100 acres of prime land in the Shenandoah valley at the time).

"This was the same rifle he had carried in the last war" (referring to the F&I - (1754-1763)

**(I can't find my notes on Adam but do have a note about an apprentice he took on in 1764, so he was probably well established as a gun maker by that point making it totally viable that he could have built a rifle that was (first) used in the F&I war by Morgan and then saw service again in the Revolution).

"The barrel was almost four feet long and it's black walnut stock measured precisely to just under his chin".

Unfortunately, this account does not make note of the caliber.

Perhaps a bit of searching for rifles built by Adam Haymaker will help answer some of your questions.

Here is one of Adam's rifles - built probably around 1785, so a little after your period, but should give you a bit of an idea of what you are looking at.

 

[Artificer]

Around the 70's during the Bicentennial Era, even Colonial Williamsburg was telling people that a common Revolutionary War Rifle Caliber was about .45 cal. However, since that time and after more research was done, they revised that information upward.

A very common average caliber for a Pre Rev War to Rev War rifle was .52 caliber, though not many barrels are made in that caliber today. (Also, Hawken Rifle Enthusiasts have informed us that .52 caliber was a favorite for their Percussion Plains Rifles.) Some Pre War Rifles were .58 to .62 caliber, though the higher end was not as frequent. So I concur with others that .50 to .54 caliber would be very representative of a rifle of that period. Rifles then were made in the caliber the customer wanted, so it is just as accurate to pick which caliber one would prefer today.

As far as the caliber of rifle one might need during the period, there is a good account on a Tennessee Bear hunter in a little later period. I can't remember if it is in the Foxfire Books or some other book in my library, but there is a story of a man in the percussion era who was known for hunting Eastern Black Bear. He was fairly satisfied with a .42 caliber rifle, but wound up going to a .47 caliber rifle for that hunting. It seems he felt that was a significant increase in killing power to ensure a one shot kill on Black Bear and did not feel the need to go to any larger caliber. Of course by that time, the powder was of better quality than in the 18th century so smaller caliber balls would do the job on most any critter folks would run into East of the Mississippi.

Gus

 

[Rifleman1776]

Just another boring thread in which we all agree. :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf: :wink:

 

[Joe Zakas]

Gents, Thanks for the info. This was just the kind of detail that I was hoping to get from y'all. Not settled on a caliber yet, but have background on various caliber.
galamb, good pic. Thanks :bow:

 

[okawbow]

Here is a link to info on a rifle carried in the AWI by Capt. Jacob Bower. http://emuseum.history.org/view/ob...ate:flow=2c13b109-4c3c-4cbe-bcd9-96df39348b64

Here is the version I built that was inspired by that rifle. I made it .54 cal.
Colonial York Co. rifle 4 by okawbow, on Flickr

 

[Dphar]

Don't go over 50 caliber. Rifle #48 in "Rifles of Colonial America" Vol 1 by Shumway would be perfect.

The "Haymaker" rifle would as well its pre-Revolution and its a Virginia rifle. Its owner was killed in Kentucky in 1775. There was a good photo spread on this rifle on a web site but its gone now.

For a kit below is a link to a very good choice.
But like everything of quality its not going to be cheap.
http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles04.htm

Dan

 

[Turtle Creek]

Nice 42 in. .54 cal swamped. The more steel you take out of that barrel the lighter the rifle.

 

[Luke MacGillie]

John Joseph Henry was a rifleman from Pennsylvania on the march to Quebec in 1775, along with Morgan's riflemen. His canoe overturned in swift water and he lost his rifle. He managed to buy another, and this is what he said of it:

"This gun was short, and carried about 45 balls to the pound. The stock was much shattered, and it was worth about five dollars. Necessity has no law. Never did a gun, ill as its appearance was, shoot with greater certainty, and where the ball touched, from its size it was sure to kill. This observation, trifling as it may seem, ought to induce government to adopt guns of this size, as to length of barrel and size of ball. There are many reasons to enforce this opinion."

45 balls to the pound is .47 caliber.

Spence

Spence beat me to this quote. Henry's whole journal is available as a PDF from Archive.org. It's worth a read

 

[Alden]

Joe, I went through the same thing at one point and, besides the ballistics being superior to my mind's eye, I knew no-one would complain "the gun is too small" if its caliber at least began with a "5".