Most Power By Volume

[nkbj]

When dealing with the limitations of chamber size what powder will provide the most power by volume in revolvers? What are yall hand gun hunters using?

Some brand of black FFFFg?
777?
Some granulation of Pyrodex?

 

[tenngun]

I use three f, or p pyrodex until my store of it is gone. I don't think 4f is a good idea.
Looking at the balistic data you can force a few extra fps at the muzzle but it doesn't translate in to improved down range performance. Shoot for your best groups, if you want to hunt with it small game don't takes lot of power, and even a walker is a little light for deer unless your very close. Shot placement wins over power every time.
Should you want a magnum ml aren't the best choice.

 

[Patocazador]

Triple 7 is supposed to be ~15% more powerful by volume than black powder. I cannot vouch for this as I have never used it.

Also there are differences between black powder brands. Swiss is supposed to be more powerful than Goex. Again, I have never used Swiss.

 

[hanshi]

Swiss and Goex's Olde Eynsford are closer to the original revolver sporting powders of yesteryear. Using either would give a real boost in power without the possible risks of using 4F.

 

[Don]

I like Swiss a lot. Its on par with 777 and pyrodex P and sometimes out performs them. It burns cleaner than Goex as well. I have to get back to using up my pyrodex as I've been using Swiss so much lately.

Don

 

[robinsroost]

:hmm: I have used 777 ln my 1858 with good results. I don't have access to a chronograph, but it gives a noticeable crack with 20 grains of powder, more so than the same charge of 3Fg. Keep yer powder dry............robin

 

[rodwha]

Testing of the original paper cartridges (.44 cal) made by Hazards using their Pistol Powder was found to be 4F powder and about the power of Swiss powder.

A curator of a museum taking apart BP cartridges from the late 1800's was found to be no courser than 4F with some finer.

I use 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7, which give very similar velocities compared to Swiss (by volume). I see no need to use anything finer as these will give satisfactory results as is. My Pietta Remington NMA does well with 30 grns of said powder with a ball or my 170 or 195 grn conicals, whereas my ROA does best with 35 grns. These are ~5+ grns below max and according to chronographed results my Remington gives roughly .45 ACP performance whereas my Ruger surpasses the standard .45 Colt loads, which is more than plenty. You don't need a Walker to hunt with, nor do you need a magnum...

Triple 7 isn't 15% more powerful than BP. It's more than 15% more powerful than standard Goex but slightly less (1-5%) powerful than Swiss or Olde Eynsford, which are both true BP. Check out some chronographed results and you'll see.

Triple 7 compresses much more. I got 45 grns behind a ball in my Ruger whereas 40 grns of Olde E was near enough to max.

 

[M. De Land]

I use a lot of both and Swiss is more powerful than Goex with equivalent granulation.
I use straight black and smokeless duplex loads regularly in my cartridge guns with both Goex 2f and Swiss 1.5. The Swiss load needs several points of elevation reduction compared to the Goex loads.
One can both feel and hear the energy difference as well.
I use these loads for cold weather competition on steel targets. The advantage is a few grains of smokeless makes the loads shoot clean and lets one keep firing without wiping or blow tubing between shots.
(This can not be used in any muzzle loading gun as it elevates pressure beyond what is safe in a muzzle loading arm.)

 

[nkbj]

The responses are saying to me what I've suspected, that more powerful formulations with finer granulation were used in 1860's cartridges. Observations made of the penetration provided by Colt and Remington pattern revolvers left me thinking that the revolvers offered more when fed the right stuff. In other words, they would have had longer cylinders if they'd needed them.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

that is why the walker and dragoon have longer cylinders, more powder capacity.
I thru-shot a 200 lb field dressed feral hog with a 32gr 3f load under a lee mold cast slug (conical) about 30' my ROA.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have 5Fg Elephant powder. YES Five F..., Elephant brand isn't made any more and I bought a pound of the stuff for fire crackers, not for shooting. It's like talcum powder, and would give you the most actual propellant in your chambers, BUT it would also deflagrate very fast and so really give you a pressure spike...which is why I use it for the occasional firecracker. :shocked2:

I'd use 3Fg in a handgun, myself.

LD

 

[rodwha]

More powder capacity isn't necessary, especially with the right powder. The Kaido 240 grn conical pushed by 3F Triple 7 went nose to tail through an adult hog, though I don't recall if it was from a repel Remington NMA or ROA, but it wasn't a Walker or Dragoon.

These guys hunt hogs with percussion revolvers, mostly the Colt Army, Remington NMA, and ROA, though one guy uses a Walker using 66 grns of 2F T7 and preferring a ball to his friend's conical claiming the wound is more significant within 25 yds.

 

[rodwha]

"I'd use 3Fg in a handgun, myself."

Despite historical evidence of 4F in a powerful form I don't see a need to use it with the performance you get from the more energetic 3F powders available. Maybe were I using standard Goex, which in comparison is rather weak providing the typically noted poor performance that is commonly stated when hunting with a percussion revolver is mentioned. But I'm not sure if the stock repro nipples have small enough orifices to contain it.

 

[omarick1948]

FFFFg TODAY is a priming powder for Flintlocks only!

Magnum was a PI..Not a black powder revolver!

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I took a smaller hog (first one I killed) with my '58 rem 'buffalo hunter' (I know, there's no historical evidence hunters used them to take buff - but still fun to shoot) 30 grs 3f and conical slug. took a sizable chunk of skull off, DRT.
the larger one I shot too far back and high it was trotting by our ground blind. although the slug went through busting ribs both sides it spun and took off before I could fire again and a nephew in the blind with me couldn't get a shot off with his H&R 20 ga mag. so we had a track down on our hands. found it an hour later in thicket about half mile off, blowing blood freely. another shot in the noggin to coup.
good times, but now a group has leased the land and I can't hunt there no more.

 

[rodwha]

You'd be quite mistaken to say such, especially in bold red...

Explain why Swiss had these labels:

Or why this is found in an old Lyman Blackpowder Handbook:

Those of the Yahoo group about percussion pistols were given authorization to share a fellas research, a part of it has to do with Civil War paper cartridges where, upon disassembly, was found to hold 4F granulation, and upon testing was found to be quite similar to Swiss powder of today in strength. If you'd like I'll share it with you. PM me your email if you care to read any of it.

And then there's the curator for a museum who, upon disassembling original black powder cartridges from the late 1800's found plenty of 4F and finer in big bore cartridges.

Despite what disinformation people spread around it is historical and true.

*NOTE*
Not that I advocate it's use.

 

[nkbj]

rodwha,
Not wanting to put words in your keyboard there but something I suspect you are alluding to without stating is perhaps that the paper cartridge revolver munitions of yesteryear had less powder space behind the elongated bullets than most of us nowadays typically load our pistolas with.

If I wanted to do it, I'm confident that loading an 1858 replica plumb full of 4F instead of 3F probably wouldn't hurt it mechanically or blow it up. And if that 1858 was all I had to stick in the night stand, or if that was the epitome of self defense tech when I was alive, then that's probably just what I'd do. Then again, reckon there was just a whole lot of folks on the end of the supply line that didn't have much say about granulation.

 

[omarick1948]

Rodwa, I put it in bold red because for safety reasons. In 1976, I personally saw a Colt fly to pieces in a woman's hand, while shooting at her target in Missouri. She didn't get hurt, but another shooter (woman) next to her caught some of the metal from the cylinder pieces and had to be rushed to a local hospital.

The woman's husband had loaded the Colt with FFFFg. I guess he didn't read your research about old FFFFg powders of the day and had to use modern FFFFg! ___ The pressures of modern FFFFg powders are to high for main charge handgun or long gun loads...period!

I don't understand your point about the Swiss powder in reference to my comment. You can load anything you want in your shooter, but if you use FFFFg, don't stand by me.

 

[rodwha]

The point is that your statement is false. Funny that history just doesn't agree with your statement, nor did Swiss or Lyman. You do notice what Swiss states their 4F (No1 powder) is for, right?

Let me guess... ASM? They've been known to have all sorts of quality issues. I guess you also know that his pistol was well cared for and never abused, and properly loaded? That's precisely why I'm not interested in a used BP gun unless I knew the single owner, such as with my ROA.

 

[bpd303]

Sounds to me more like he loaded the Colt with smokeless than black ffffg.