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murphys oil soap
- Thread starter brubincam
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CrackStock
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A little won't hurt, but most people use a drop of Dawn in their cleaning water as it breaks the surface tension best.
On the other hand, I generally am cleaning in the woods and use plain cold water without any soap.
CS
On the other hand, I generally am cleaning in the woods and use plain cold water without any soap.
CS
I have used a combination fo Murphy's, Windex w/ vinegar and water for both my ML and cartridge BP guns. Usually soak pretty good then flush with fresh water. Dry with air and oil.
Haven't had any problems yet.
Kettleman :thumbsup:
Haven't had any problems yet.
Kettleman :thumbsup:
I found some no-name generic clone at the grocery this summer- worked like a charm for cleaning all 6 of my muzzleloaders. Hot water, from a garden hose sitting in the sun for 6 hours, and the soap. I used both pyrodex and goex in different rifles, and there was a considerable amount of unknown nastiness to be cleaned from the locks of 2 of the borrowed guns.
I'm convinced- hot water and oil soap is the way to go. I'll save the relatively more expensive #13 cleaner to soak patches in for between shot wiping and as a quick-clean at the end of the day, when I don't have time to do a thorough job yet.
I'm convinced- hot water and oil soap is the way to go. I'll save the relatively more expensive #13 cleaner to soak patches in for between shot wiping and as a quick-clean at the end of the day, when I don't have time to do a thorough job yet.
Lube War #1
Murphy's is a fair rust preventer on metal (read the above thread) but all soaps need water or a similar carrier to do their best as cleaners.
Pure Murphy's isn't a very good lube. It seems to lead to stringing for most shooters.
For cleaning, you might try Murphy's & water for the rinse and then pure Murphy's as a coating.
Murphy's is a fair rust preventer on metal (read the above thread) but all soaps need water or a similar carrier to do their best as cleaners.
Pure Murphy's isn't a very good lube. It seems to lead to stringing for most shooters.
For cleaning, you might try Murphy's & water for the rinse and then pure Murphy's as a coating.
Might want to leave out that peroxide if you don't want your barrel to rust. It is an oxidizer and promotes rusting. :m2c:
Hey Rebel,
I have only used the Murphy's Oil Soap/Alcohol/Hydrogen Peroxid (MAP) on my rifle for the last two years and haven't seen any problem with rust. When I lived in Vermont, a local gunmaker suggested I use it and showed me the cleaning technique he's used for years. He's very particular about taking good care of his guns, and it's seemed to work fine for me. Prior to that, I just used hot soapy water.
Seems that I recall some discussion a while back on the forum where a chemist or chemical engineer said that the MA part of the MAP solution neutralized the oxidizing properties of the Hydrogen Peroxide pretty quickly, while still allowing it to help with the cleaning.
Do you recall that discussion?
Thanks!
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Murphy's Oil Soap, Alcohol, and Hydrogen Peroxide (MAP)seems to clean up a bore quickly. I prefer hot water and soap in hooked breech halfstocks like my TC and GPR. But the .36 longrifle doesn't break down for using the tub or bucket (and I'm not pulling the barrel pins). It seems I can scrub and swab and it takes forever to get the bore clean with this rifle. So I put a toothpick in the breech, set the rifle in upright position, pour in some MAP, let sit for a few minutes, pour out, swab, and coat with Ballistol or Clenzoil. MAP cuts the crud quickly. :m2c:
That's the same thing I do with my longrifle. I clean the lock while letting the barrel soak and then push in my ramrod about half way; pull out the toothpick; and push the ramrod the rest of the way down. Gotta be carefule where you point the flash hole, becuase the blackest ugliest looking stuff you ever saw will stream out a good 4-5 feet when you push the ramrod the rest of the way down. I'll run some more wet patches down it until they come back clean; put through a dry patch; and then put through an oil patch.
So far so good...
Twisted and Dixie, i am just passing on what i have heard here on the forum. I tried the MAP and also just the Murphys and alcohol. Both seemed to clean just fine. Now i have gone back to mostly using just water to clean. Cheap, easy to come by, and works just as well. :m2c:
squirejohn
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Rebel I agree. I've used MAP and had "instant" rust when used as a cleaning solution. Left out the peroxide and use as a patch lube and as a quick clean up in the field. Also I think I remember reading in MB or ML mags. a few years ago that MAP can be unstable and a jar blew up in someones car trunk.
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Questions; Is it OK to let hot water sit in an upright barrel for a few minutes to loosen the crud? Could I use the REAL HOT water that comes out of the "hot" faucet on my 5 gal water dispenser? Does the hot water work better with soap added? After dry-swabbing, pour in some alcohol to remove moisture?
The corrosive effects of shooting black powder or modern substitutes, comes from the byproduct of corrosive salts produced when the powder charge and primer are fired. These salts are deposited in the fouling and microscopic poors of the bore and if left uncleaned will attack the ferrous metal of the bore causing rust.
By chemical nature the corrosive salts are acidic on the PH scale of 0-14. Anything below PH=7 is acidic and anything above PH=7 is basic. Drinking water falls in the neutral PH range of 7.
The most common way to neutralize corrosive salts is to dissolve them in enough water, or other neutral Ph median, so they chemically breakdown and the entire solution reaches a neutral PH level of 7.
Another way to raise the PH level of acidic solutions is the use of Basic medians, like Hydroxides. Ammonia, Baking Soda (Sodium Bi-Carbonate), Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) and Caustic Soda's are several Hydroxides that can be found in the home or hardware store. This is why a lot of people use Windex or Ammonia based window cleaners when swabbing the bore between shots, it helps to neutralize the corrosive salts in the bore.
Murphys Oil Soap has a basic PH, higher than 7, most likely due to a Hydroxide being used in the formula. When you add the M.O.S. to your cleaning water bucket you will raise the PH of the water, which help to chemically neutralize the acidic salts in the bore in addition to the dilution method of plain water. Simply adding a few table spoons of baking soda will do the same thing if you prefer to use a detergent like dishwashing soap instead of M.O.S.
Cold vs Hot water, age old debate here and lots of opinions from all sides. Most of us use a lubricant that stays soft making loading, swabbing and cleaning easier. The lubricant is soft and coats the metal, very tiny particles of corrosive salts will penetrate the lube and enter the poors of the metal from one shot to the next. Hot water will help open these poors up allowing the salts to be chemically neutralized or diluted to a neutral PH level with a hot water only cleaning.
Peroxides in your cleaning solutions...
Peroxides are oxidizers and will promote the oxidization process of the acidic salts, this leads to rust when the salts are in contact with metals.
Most people use the 3% Hydrogen Peroxide found in the medicine chest or pharmacy. You actually have 97% water and 3% H.P. which is pretty mild but still strong enough by its self to promote the oxidization process of the acidic salts. If you doubt this, then pour some on a fresh cut and watch it bubble and fizz, this is the oxidization process in action as it reacts with the acids in the body.
Most people dilute the Hydrogen Peroxide into other medians, like Water, Murphys Oil Soap or Ammonia based window cleaners which pretty much neutralizes and kills out the peroxide, and some of the hydroxides, in the solution within a short period of time.
By mixing Hydrogen Peroxide with your Hydroxide and water based cleaning solutions you are reducing its neutralization effects to a degree. Using plain water would be cheaper, and safer to the metal, just use more of it.
If you use Window cleaners to swab between shots then DO NOT USE Vinegar based cleaners. Vinegar is nothing more than a diluted form of Acetic Acid, which is on the lower end of the PH scale and like the corrosive salts its acidic in nature. Using a Vinegar solution would just compound the problem of trying to neutralize the acidic salts in the bore.
I use Murphys Oil Soap in hot water because it both cleans and chemically neutralizes the corrosive salts at the same time. Followded by a hot water flush, drying and lube.
Regulis7
By chemical nature the corrosive salts are acidic on the PH scale of 0-14. Anything below PH=7 is acidic and anything above PH=7 is basic. Drinking water falls in the neutral PH range of 7.
The most common way to neutralize corrosive salts is to dissolve them in enough water, or other neutral Ph median, so they chemically breakdown and the entire solution reaches a neutral PH level of 7.
Another way to raise the PH level of acidic solutions is the use of Basic medians, like Hydroxides. Ammonia, Baking Soda (Sodium Bi-Carbonate), Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) and Caustic Soda's are several Hydroxides that can be found in the home or hardware store. This is why a lot of people use Windex or Ammonia based window cleaners when swabbing the bore between shots, it helps to neutralize the corrosive salts in the bore.
Murphys Oil Soap has a basic PH, higher than 7, most likely due to a Hydroxide being used in the formula. When you add the M.O.S. to your cleaning water bucket you will raise the PH of the water, which help to chemically neutralize the acidic salts in the bore in addition to the dilution method of plain water. Simply adding a few table spoons of baking soda will do the same thing if you prefer to use a detergent like dishwashing soap instead of M.O.S.
Cold vs Hot water, age old debate here and lots of opinions from all sides. Most of us use a lubricant that stays soft making loading, swabbing and cleaning easier. The lubricant is soft and coats the metal, very tiny particles of corrosive salts will penetrate the lube and enter the poors of the metal from one shot to the next. Hot water will help open these poors up allowing the salts to be chemically neutralized or diluted to a neutral PH level with a hot water only cleaning.
Peroxides in your cleaning solutions...
Peroxides are oxidizers and will promote the oxidization process of the acidic salts, this leads to rust when the salts are in contact with metals.
Most people use the 3% Hydrogen Peroxide found in the medicine chest or pharmacy. You actually have 97% water and 3% H.P. which is pretty mild but still strong enough by its self to promote the oxidization process of the acidic salts. If you doubt this, then pour some on a fresh cut and watch it bubble and fizz, this is the oxidization process in action as it reacts with the acids in the body.
Most people dilute the Hydrogen Peroxide into other medians, like Water, Murphys Oil Soap or Ammonia based window cleaners which pretty much neutralizes and kills out the peroxide, and some of the hydroxides, in the solution within a short period of time.
By mixing Hydrogen Peroxide with your Hydroxide and water based cleaning solutions you are reducing its neutralization effects to a degree. Using plain water would be cheaper, and safer to the metal, just use more of it.
If you use Window cleaners to swab between shots then DO NOT USE Vinegar based cleaners. Vinegar is nothing more than a diluted form of Acetic Acid, which is on the lower end of the PH scale and like the corrosive salts its acidic in nature. Using a Vinegar solution would just compound the problem of trying to neutralize the acidic salts in the bore.
I use Murphys Oil Soap in hot water because it both cleans and chemically neutralizes the corrosive salts at the same time. Followded by a hot water flush, drying and lube.
Regulis7
