The history on the shooting that the Pennsylvania riflemen were capable of doing states that they could hit a redcoat at 250 yards +/-. Not being able to let this alone I played around with one of the online ballistics calculators. Making some probably idealistic assumptions : B.C. =.075, 100 yd zero and 2000 ft/sec MV and a 10 MPH crosswind with a 54 cal ball means that these guys would have to compensate for 4+ feet drop and about 4 feet of wind drift. Would be easier if they were "herd shooting" at a bunch of them, but at a single target at that range would be a challenge. Calm winds would make a big difference but who can depend on that? Assuming I have my information correct, these guys were good!
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No doubt about that. Your findings are also borne out by the number of officers who had horses "shot out from under them" in the battles where riflemen participatred.
mikee51848
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I've read where the PA riflemen were a royal pain in the butt to Washington and that their marksmanship was greatly exagerated. They were rude, crude, and un-disciplined soldiers.
mikee51848
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Source: The First American Army by Bruce Chadwick.
pg.16 : "The much vaunted Pennsylvania rifleman, as bored as everyone else as the occupation and siege dragged on (Boston, Aug. 1775), spent many nights taking potshots at British soldiers in the city, or anyone they believed to be a British soldier, or, sometimes, anything that moved. Their marksmen did kill some soldiers and wounded others, but their aim was nowhere near as accurate as legend had it - and they all bragged -and they often shot up the homes of residents. One night a rifleman mistook another rifleman for a British soldier and shot him."
and from pg 26:
"Even those who seemed so impressive upon their much anticipated arrivals, such as the raucous buckskin-clad riflemen from Pennsylvania wound up disappointing the rest of the recruits in the army. They turned out to be chaotic bands of untamed frontiersmen who unnerved all who met them. They cursed throughout the day, drank as often as they worked, disdained the men from Massachusetts, and paid little attention to the rules of the newly created army. On two occasions in Boston, a group of them charged a guardhouse and freed their compatriot Pennsylvanians who were incarcerated there. Emboldened by their success, the riflemen tried a third rescue, but Washington heard of it an surrounded the guardhouse with five hundred men, muskets loaded, and told them to shoot any riflemen who approached. None did."
and
"One officer complained about them that there never was a more mutinous and undisciplined set of villains that bred disturbance in any camp".
pg 26 quotes used by Chadwick came from
Rebels and Redcoats by Scheer and Rankin.
pg.16 : "The much vaunted Pennsylvania rifleman, as bored as everyone else as the occupation and siege dragged on (Boston, Aug. 1775), spent many nights taking potshots at British soldiers in the city, or anyone they believed to be a British soldier, or, sometimes, anything that moved. Their marksmen did kill some soldiers and wounded others, but their aim was nowhere near as accurate as legend had it - and they all bragged -and they often shot up the homes of residents. One night a rifleman mistook another rifleman for a British soldier and shot him."
and from pg 26:
"Even those who seemed so impressive upon their much anticipated arrivals, such as the raucous buckskin-clad riflemen from Pennsylvania wound up disappointing the rest of the recruits in the army. They turned out to be chaotic bands of untamed frontiersmen who unnerved all who met them. They cursed throughout the day, drank as often as they worked, disdained the men from Massachusetts, and paid little attention to the rules of the newly created army. On two occasions in Boston, a group of them charged a guardhouse and freed their compatriot Pennsylvanians who were incarcerated there. Emboldened by their success, the riflemen tried a third rescue, but Washington heard of it an surrounded the guardhouse with five hundred men, muskets loaded, and told them to shoot any riflemen who approached. None did."
and
"One officer complained about them that there never was a more mutinous and undisciplined set of villains that bred disturbance in any camp".
pg 26 quotes used by Chadwick came from
Rebels and Redcoats by Scheer and Rankin.
"Frontier Rifleman" by Richard B. Lacrosse, Jr. has much documentation of their skill. Alas, it is home and I am not. :winking:
No one doubts they were a pain inthe neck to deal with - along with most of the continental army at that time. Booze was a common problem more so then than now in the "army" - such as it was.
".... mostly backwoodsman of Scottish-Irish descent they wore long, fringed hunting shirts, "rifle shirts" of homespun linin, in colors ranging from undyed tan and great shades of brown and even black, these tied at the waist belts and carrying Tomahawks. At a review they demonstrated how, with their long-barreled rifles, a frontier weapon made in Pennsylvania and largely unknown in New England, they could hit a mark 7 inches in diameter at a distance of 250 yards, while the ordinary musket was accurate has only 100 yards or so...."
"Welcome as they were at first, the riflemen soon proved even more indifference to discipline than the New Englanders, obstreperous to the point that Washington began to wish they had never come." McCullough "1776" p. 38
Most of us have heard the tales of hitting nails at 100 yards which is-of course-ridiculous. Even a 7 inch target at 250 yards is a little tough to believe. Maybe a friendly shooting competition amongst our members could prove or disprove this, or at least add or subtract credibility from the statement.
".... mostly backwoodsman of Scottish-Irish descent they wore long, fringed hunting shirts, "rifle shirts" of homespun linin, in colors ranging from undyed tan and great shades of brown and even black, these tied at the waist belts and carrying Tomahawks. At a review they demonstrated how, with their long-barreled rifles, a frontier weapon made in Pennsylvania and largely unknown in New England, they could hit a mark 7 inches in diameter at a distance of 250 yards, while the ordinary musket was accurate has only 100 yards or so...."
"Welcome as they were at first, the riflemen soon proved even more indifference to discipline than the New Englanders, obstreperous to the point that Washington began to wish they had never come." McCullough "1776" p. 38
Most of us have heard the tales of hitting nails at 100 yards which is-of course-ridiculous. Even a 7 inch target at 250 yards is a little tough to believe. Maybe a friendly shooting competition amongst our members could prove or disprove this, or at least add or subtract credibility from the statement.
Do I get to use a stump, log or my hat on a different rock as a rest? It may be a lucky shot to plug a police silhouette inside the 8 ring (a LOT bigger than 7" but fatal wounds on an "enemy"), but I betcha I'd tear some black paper once I figured the proper hold-over.
mikee51848
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I think we need to have a long range contest on this board. None of that 25 or 50 yd stuff. Maybe a 3x5 card at 100 yds, off-hand?
mikee51848
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rumriverhunter said:
Unfortunately, most of us on this board couldn't see a 7 inch target at 250 yds. :haha:
mike alexandre
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I though Long Range ment 600 to 1200 yds???. Maybe its smaller in the US - got to be the first thing!!
justmike said:
You hit something with a patched round ball at 1,200 yards it's not because you aimed at it. It's because you aimed at something 76 feet above it. :rotf: We're talking manly projectiles: round balls. Not them comicals.
:winking:
The man-size target may be the best to try, as this is what the penn riflemen were trying to hit. From my own experience, I can make out a 4 inch square at 100 yds. This translates to a 10 incher at 250. When time permits I will try my .54 hawken with a ball at around 1800 fps from this range and see what happens.
I remember reading that back in the 1950's, Walter Cline put six out of ten shots into a man sized slhouette at 600 yards with an original Rev. War period flintlock. This was because of a similar discussion about a British officer who was killed at that range.
If it was done once, it can be done again.....with LOTS of practice.
J.D.
If it was done once, it can be done again.....with LOTS of practice.
J.D.
I recall reading somewhere that the test to become a member of the US Corps of Riflemen in the early 1800's was to shoot at a three inch target at one hundred yards and a six inch target at two hundred yards. The 100 yarder I think had to be hit five of five and the two hundred three of five shots. Perhaps someone can correct my somewhat hazy recollection? Good smoke, ron in fl.
