Muzzle filing to adjust POI

[Ballshooter]

Have not bare balled it. Can’t really see that moving the POI much but I wouldn’t swear to it.

True it's just odd that it still shoots so far off.

 

[Britsmoothy]

When you say “ bevel “ do you mean sticking the file down in the bore and removing a little metal from the inside edge of the bore, or just laying the file across the outside of the muzzle perpendicular to the bore and removing metal there?

No sir.. just bevel the edge.

Something else is going on here.

If the gun is seriously canted during shooting dose it shift poi?

 

[Kansas Kid]

I’m not giving up on getting it to shoot straight for me yet. But am leaving it as is for the rest of the year to shoot two matches. I have two other FDC 20 bore guns that don’t suffer from windage issues but for some reason I can shoot old Cross Eyed Jack better off hand. Would think if I can get the windage problem fixed I would shoot the smooth bore silhouette matches at Friendship next year.

 

[Brokennock]

No sir.. just bevel the edge.

Something else is going on here.

If the gun is seriously canted during shooting dose it shift poi?

Maybe you could help folks visualize this better.
We know from other topics, you know how to use a camera well....
And I understand you often take a lot of,,,,,, heat,,, when this subject comes up, but, in another thread,,,,,,
Maybe you could use a piece of scrap pipe and a file and take some pictures showing exactly what to do. The angles and location of the material removed.
Maybe do one showing how little actually needs to be removed in most cases, and another showing it at an extreme just so it is more visible.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Maybe you could help folks visualize this better.
We know from other topics, you know how to use a camera well....
And I understand you often take a lot of,,,,,, heat,,, when this subject comes up, but, in another thread,,,,,,
Maybe you could use a piece of scrap pipe and a file and take some pictures showing exactly what to do. The angles and location of the material removed.
Maybe do one showing how little actually needs to be removed in most cases, and another showing it at an extreme just so it is more visible.

Yes, when I have even less time I'll give some thought lol.

 

[Kansas Kid]

No sir.. just bevel the edge.

Something else is going on here.

If the gun is seriously canted during shooting dose it shift poi?

If I get an opportunity I’ll try the full gangster tilt this weekend.

 

[French Colonial]

I am a "bend the barrel" guy, as I have done it with great success and seen it done with success as well.

That being said, I have seen the results of filing the muzzle and what I believe are the same on original guns.

If you cannot get either method to work I would think you have some other issue that is not being dealt with such as the muzzle is not square with the bore or any number of things, keep trying, you will get there.

 

[Steve Martin]

I had a very similar issue last year with my Fusil de Chasse. Turns out it was a combination of TWO issues. My barrel was actually bent but I was able to correct it a good bit myself using a large drill press I rigged up. That took three careful bending sessions (with a long trip out to the range after each session on the drill press to check my progress). However, still wasn't shooting quite true to POI so I took the gun to a gunsmith and he discovered the muzzle was not true to the bore. Once that was corrected it shoots great, right to POI. I am now very pleased with the gun so don't give up on it yet!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

You need to bend that barrel. It isn't hard to do.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I thought I would try to find some pictures. I did find five pages of similar discussion and @Britsmoothy's description of filing in a couple of topics. Wish I could find the pictures. Although if the filing is subtle, the muzzle won't show much difference.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...smoothbore-but-now.137834/page-3#post-1955773
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/flexing-a-barrel.137853/page-2#post-1927332

 

[Siringo]

Altering muzzles to change POI using roundballs will not work. That is the beauty of roundballs. Uneven gas pressure can’t tilt them one way or another (they are round). NOW a conical is a whole different matter!

For instance coning a muzzle will have no effect on accuracy or POI with a round ball barrel. But try that with a conical and accuracy is destroyed.

 

[chorizo]

Try this...LOL

This must be massively frustrating, especially with a gun you like.

 

[flconch53]

The other alternative is to move the front sight slightly. Move it in the direction the POI is off. This also is pretty easy.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Tried that once already as it looked offset so removed it and re solder it at 12:00. I’m not a quitter.
I liked putting it in my large lathe and pulling the barrel and using a center in the tailstock to measure progress. So I’m back to bending.
Sounds reasonable about not being able to steer a round ball.
Also have heard the theory of a thin barrel will shoot it’s self back to where it was after bending. I almost swear that’s what happened on my first bending trials as the first few shots were good then it seemed to go back to where it was.

I’ve owned and or built probably a dozen smooth bores and this one is a challenge.

 

[French Colonial]

By putting it in the lathe and pulling it can you tell where the bend is occurring?

The ones I have done and been around while being done were all supported on the ends while bending with a hydraulic press in the middle.

Strangely enough we were able to actually tell when we bent it enough that it would stay bent rather than it springing back, we did need to disassemble, bend, reassemble, go to the range multiple times but eventually got them to shoot to exactly point of aim.

Bent mine probably 15 years ago and it has never changed POI.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Yes. I also made a plug with a small center hole that fits close in the muzzle. You can put fishing line through the hole and then run the string down the top of barrel to center of tang and tell how straight or not the barrel is. I worked in a machine shop 35 years or better. And have straightened a few things over the years. This one is just being stubborn

 

[Ballshooter]

Yes. I also made a plug with a small center hole that fits close in the muzzle. You can put fishing line through the hole and then run the string down the top of barrel to center of tang and tell how straight or not the barrel is. I worked in a machine shop 35 years or better. And have straightened a few things over the years. This one is just being stubborn

That's the fun part and must reward when you get it the way you like!

 

[NorthFork]

@Britsmoothy

I don't want to detract from this thread, BUT my question is relevant. How does one bevel/file a muzzle on a smoothbore to change point of impact? Please post with pictures or even MS Paint or whatever is needed (no sarcasm!). I really need to learn how to do this. I own a VERY expensive 12 gauge BP single barrel smoothbore ($2500 USD +/-) that hits the center of the pattern a few inches to the left at 30 yards vs my point of aim.

 

[Kansas Kid]

@Britsmoothy

I don't want to detract from this thread, BUT my question is relevant. How does one bevel/file a muzzle on a smoothbore to change point of impact? Please post with pictures or even MS Paint or whatever is needed (no sarcasm!). I really need to learn how to do this. I own a VERY expensive 12 gauge BP single barrel smoothbore ($2500 USD +/-) that hits the center of the pattern a few inches to the left at 30 yards vs my point of aim.

Apparently this only works for flat based projectiles like bullets and shot wads. Just bevel the muzzle 180 degrees from the point you want to hit.

 

[bud in pa]

Having worked in a machine shop years ago, one of my jobs was to straighten parts that were hardened to 60 Rockwell. I was using a 50 Ton Press. You had to past center to straighten them and not have them spring back to their original shape. The amount of bend was different on each one.