Muzzleloading in Germany

[Charly_the_rebel]

Hi Ya all !

A few of you folks here asked me how the Muzzleloading situatuion will be here in good old Germany. Well , I try to answer this questions, but it will be quite diffcult and therefore a bit away of being complete answered.
Hope you will understand.

Like you may know, the German laws for firearms of any kind is one of the tightes, strictlyest and roughest in the world.

After WW II it was legal to have Rifles and shotguns with a over-all-lengt not below 60 centimeters ( about 2 ' ) to everyone who liked to and being older than 18 years.

Pistols and revolvers free to everyone above 18 years, if the caliber was not more than .22

Ammo and Gunpowder was generally free to everyone above 18 years

In the 1970 we had a big problem with the > Baader - Meinhoff < - Gang , a crowed of terrorist, wich done many killings and bombings .

The Germany ( ********** -) Politicians were scared to the bone and within a month or so, they createt an " Anty-Terror-law " and refoundet the Law of arms.
Unfortunately to the misery of the non terroristical-citizens....
No more Ammo, Gunpowder and Cartridge-guns for the citizens.
This was the first.
In 1972 they > eased< ( ???) the law a bit loose.
Oh what a joy....:shake:
Now they asked for official schoolings and at least 1 year of shooting competitions in a registerd Schuetzenclub, before you could even apply for a gun or ammo-licence...

Only Muzzleloading guns was free to everyone above 18 years.
But : You need a licence to buy Powder....

Basicly it is still the same situation- but it is a little easyer to get a gun then it was back then.
But :
Only 1 Punishment against you by a court , Or a $-fine above 1000 Euro's, or you been reported for violence, you had a figth wich was reported to the cops - forget about it ! :youcrazy:

So it came, that gunning muzzleloaders went populare to the public.
And today, here in good old Germany, we have about 800.000 registered muzzleload gunners.
The ones who owning a Muzzleloader and just do a shot once in a while are legion - uncountable, 'cause the are not registered in a Schuetzenclub.

Another way of the Gov. to keep arms out of private hands is , what they charge you for every thing you need to do, to get a Gun or powder-licenc...
For Example :
Apply for a Gunlicence 70.00 Euros...
apply for ammolicence in the caliber of the applyed gun : 50.00 euros...
applying Powderlicence ( Blackpowder ) 50.00 euros...
applying Powderlicence ( nitro ) 80.00 euros

and at this time it is not sure if you will get any licence !!!

every ( gun / Poder/ ammo ) -licence wich will be given to you : add tween 70.00 and 120 euros...

thats it shortwise, dear friends.
Any questions ?
Ask me by PM or e-mail. You will get a reply soon.

 

Clearly The Rebel, would you mind explaining to the many reders of this forum all the details it takes to get a hunting liscence in Germany. I'll bet it'll knock their socks off!

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

@ flyboy :

Hi. Thanks for you posting.
Okay - I'll try my best to do thid - but I have to get prooved Informatiomns first, how this thing is running, to get a Hunters licence in germany.
To me it was never interesting to get one.
I do not like these introverted green dressed *****, ( in Germany ) who always and ever think, they're better than others.

Wha I can say right noe and what I know for shure is this :
- it takes you 1 year of schooling, twice a Week, usually held in the evening and on saturday mornings.
- They call the Jagdlehrgang ( hunters school ) " the green university and the >Jagdschein< (= Hunters licence ) is called green Graduation...
And : that it is not easy to graduate !
And will cost you an arm and both legs !
What I know, the complete price will be twen 6.000 and 14.000 Euros !
You fail the Test ?
You pay the price anyway ,and one again if you give it another try 2 years later !
Okay - Then you got the licence to hunt....
But no place where you can go for hunting ! ! !
To get a > jagdpacht< ( = an nature area of certain size and shape ) is very, very hard - and you only rent ist for a year !
Do not ask for the amount of rent....
chaep ones are 10.000 euros / year.
And added to all this cost, will be that you have to take care of your Jagdpacht - wich means that you pay ever uprising cost, like feeding the animals in wintertime, Veterinary cost, if a desease happens to the animals, re- naturating, if any damage happens in your arear, ond so on - and so on - and so on !

Thats it so far.
I get back to the subject, as soon as I collectet more and detailered Infos about this.

Geetings to each and everyone
Karl Heinz

 

[shmrck1]

Karl,
No wonder you listen to American country
music. I must tell you this is a traditional
gun forum and not a political or pro,anti gun
control forum in no matter what country it may
occur in. As we have done on country music, in
the PM form, please do the same with your issues
on gun control in no matter the country you speak
of.
Thanks,
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

ooops....
Did I make some mistakes ?
Sorry for that - I dont want to cause any trouble at all.
It migth takes a while till I can handle all the necessary things.
But I try hard.
once again excuse for my mistakes .
Karl

 

[Pork Chop]

Snake-eyes,

I may be clueless here (been known to happen), but I did not see any political rant or discussion in Karl's post. What I read is that he has no interest in hunting due to the snobbery that he has seen from some of the hunters there plus the exorbitant costs associated with hunting. Did I miss something?

 

[Blivetmaker]

Gotta agree with Pork Chop on this one. It's legit to list the regs, controls, and prices. So long as the thread doesn't decend into the political end of things, I'd call the runner safe.
:v

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Ditto, I too have seen much worse political/gun control/hunting laws threads go completely unchallenged.

And, I am a SIRIUS Roadhouse Country Classic kinda guy myself.

 

Pork Chop I agree with you on this one. I in no way saw any political bashing nor siding in Karls' reply to my question. Also, I didn't mean to start a problem either. I just wanted the readers of this forum to hear from THE HORSES MOUTH/what it takes to get a hunting licence in Germany Having spent so much time overseas through the years I've come to appreciate some of the little things we here often take for granted. There seems to be many that think that hunting is a right, it's not, it's a privelidge just like an automobile liscence. Unless you're a convicted Felon or deemed by competent authority to be mentally unstable it is a right and not a privilege for the time being anyway to own a firearm in this country. Unfortunately there are many others around the globe that are'nt quite so fortunate as us. Upon reading Karls' testimony in regards to hunting and gun ownership in Germany we should all stop and ponder for a moment and be thankful for how good we really have it here in the good old USA!!!!!!

 

[musketman]

Snake-eyes,

I may be clueless here (been known to happen), but I did not see any political rant or discussion in Karl's post. What I read is that he has no interest in hunting due to the snobbery that he has seen from some of the hunters there plus the exorbitant costs associated with hunting. Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything, I think Snake-Eyes was just trying to head it off at the pass (cliché alert), that's all...

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

...Unfortunately there are many others around the globe that are'nt quite so fortunate as us. Upon reading Karls' testimony in regards to hunting and gun ownership in Germany we should all stop and ponder for a moment and be thankful for how good we really have it here in the good old USA!!!!!!

You're absolutely rigth in your statement, Flyboy !

I agree to all.

The man upstairs must love ya all, over there !
And therefore, that you got the grace to do all that you want to - stop complaining and mourning.
But watch out that no one takes away these rigths.

And because all of this - and many, many other reasons more ! - I wish, I could live in > God#s own country< too...

And now lets stop this disscussion.
Things 'tween snake-eyes and me are cleared and there is no Problem at all.

Lets get back to our favourite subjects : Muzzleloading !

Greetings
Karl

 

Karl, good to hear from you again! Hope all is going well for you. Glad to hear that you and Snake Eyes kissed and made up. I understand that things are different over there and then there is the culture issue too. I think it's real neat to hear from a European concerning muzzleoading! I'd love to chat with you via e-mail. My e-mail address is listed in the members section. We can even talk politics there! By the way, my Great Grandfather fought for the Kaiser in WWI. I also still have some family over in Bremmen from what I'm told.

 

I use Goex black powder here. What black powder is used there?

Garryowen

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

Very popular is the brandname " Wano" ( former known as > Wasag < ) in grades from P op to PPPPP.
A few ML-gunners are usimg > Jagdschwarzpulver No. 1 , made by Dynamite Nobel in Troisdorf.
At the monent the price per Kilo ( about 2 lbs and 2 Ounces ) will be 40, 00 Euros....

Many gunnners use all kinds of >Schweizer-Pulver <
(swiss made black powder )This is expensive too .
The Swiss powders are quite faster burning as Wano - and makes less dirt.
Swiss Powder has 4 or 5 numbers, but only no. 1 , 2 and 3 are the most in use.
No 1 for fill FL-pans, no 2 for all kinds of Pistols and small rifles, no 3 for all kinds of rifles above . 50 cal.

Years ago, the " Elephant" was thrown on market and everyone hopped on it. New brooms are cleaning good...ha ?
But Elephant was not satisfying at all , so the sale broke in and yxou see it no more.
" Goex " is well known - but only by articles in the certain magazines, because it does not pass the Tests of the " Bundesanstalt fuer Materialpruefung " ( Shortcut seen on any package of burning or explosive material is > B A M < )
Many of us here wishes, we could get and use Goex.
Stubborn Regulators...
It is no Problem to get it in France ( 7 miles away fom my area ) or in Luxembourg ( 50 mile away )- and in the named countries, it is allowed for any competitions - but here in the peoples republic of Regularistan ( Germany ) ....???

yepp folks, we ML-gunners ( and all others too ! ) have a tough life her.

regard
Karl