My carbine, a cut down CVA Mountain Stalker.
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My new to me "Bush Buster"
- Thread starter ORBushman
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70 grains by volume of 3f Swiss under a Hornady Pennsylvania Conical, is my best combo for my carbine.
Me too, for a couple of my ML. I use a regular sling for unmentionables for on my New Englander and let me tell you, they are great when packing out elk, and even deer.
Muzzle57
40 Cal
What is the twist of the rifling? My 1-48 doesn't care for the 250 grain Reals. Was thinking of trying the Pa conicals.
1/48 twist.
I had a 24" 1-48 twist CVA Frontier Hunter 54 cal and it liked 375 grain CVA Deerslayers quite well. With heavier (420 deerslayers) it wasn't happy nor was it happier lighter with REALs
Try slightly heavier conical and a slightly heavier powder load (faster MV) to spit them out a bit faster and get a faster RPM on them. I think it will settle down for you.
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/06/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-and-stability/
For information purposes, a carbine's "preferred" loads are with heavy for caliber bullets as the heavier bullet allows for more complete powder burn and for more pressure to build (slower to move a heavy bullet down the barrel initially...overcoming static inertia) and thus higher velocities than you would expect with a shorter barrel.
Try slightly heavier conical and a slightly heavier powder load (faster MV) to spit them out a bit faster and get a faster RPM on them. I think it will settle down for you.
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/06/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-and-stability/
For information purposes, a carbine's "preferred" loads are with heavy for caliber bullets as the heavier bullet allows for more complete powder burn and for more pressure to build (slower to move a heavy bullet down the barrel initially...overcoming static inertia) and thus higher velocities than you would expect with a shorter barrel.
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Suggest you try an original Maxi Ball pushed by 3F. I've yet to have a ML not like them. Didn't see what caliber you are trying to get to shoot accurately but with all the 50's I've seen and/or tried they all liked a 370 grain Maxi Ball and 80 grains of FFF.
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I was curious on these due to the information says they are for longer barrels with slower 1:66 twist rates. Seems they wouldn't fly well out of short barrel with a 1:48.
Muzzle57
40 Cal
I'm gonna find out, ordered some a little earlier today.
Muzzle57
40 Cal
If these Pa conicals don't fly right I'll give the maxi's a try. Tks
Muzzle57
40 Cal
Them 370 maxi balls are like chicken teeth, scarce! Finally found them at log cabin shop. They're pricey for sure. If they work out i can see a maxi ball mold being sourced.
I picked up this mould a while back but, cannot remember what it was. It is not marked other than .50 cal. but, I think it is one of the T/C Maxi something or other. Not sure what grain weight either. Anyone recognize it?
Muzzle57
40 Cal
That's a maxi ball mold i believe.
Yes sir, dat be it. I've had mine for many years and best I can tell, it still puts out good Maxi Balls. Getting ready to mold up a few more in the next week or so. I get good accuracy out of them. Maxi Balls don't expand much, if any, but for whatever reason, they flat do the job.
Killed quite a few big game critters (including elk) with them and not one has made it past a very few steps.
I've got boxes of the TC Maxi Hunters in 275 grain for a different gun. I haven't had the chance to try them in the carbine yet.
Funny thing about that carbine is that when it had a 26 inch barrel, it shot a round ball pretty well too. After I cut it down, it wouldn't shoot a ball accurately but the PA Conicals still do.
Funny thing about that carbine is that when it had a 26 inch barrel, it shot a round ball pretty well too. After I cut it down, it wouldn't shoot a ball accurately but the PA Conicals still do.
I have been molding different bullets to try. In 24-28 inch barrels. I bought the lee improved Minnie ball mold to try. Already had both R.E.A.L bullet molds for .50 cal. I liked the 320gr R.E.A.Ls. Until I molded the 360gr minni ball l lubed them with bees wax and olive blend and they shoot the best for me in my guns.the reals I was getting about a 3 inch group and these I grouped at 1.5 inch at 50 yards.the mini balls should hit like a sledge hammer.
I have found out a couple of things during my development and testing of my carbines:
1. Distance matters. If you are shooting for accuracy at 50 yards, you can shoot at lower velocities which, with most any hollow base conicals, provides the best accuracy. If you want a conical to have hitting power and accuracy at 100 yards, you simply cannot push the hollow base bullets fast enough to do both.
2. Bullet weight matters. Generally, heavier weight for caliber bullets do better in short barrel carbines.
3. Twist rate AND muzzle velocity matters. You need to spin the bullet at a high enough RPM and send it fast enough so that it stabilizes itself and does not hit transonic/subsonic velocities before your maximum intended range.
What does this mean to you?
Well, if your desired max distance is 75 yards or less and your sight-in is 50 yards, you have a wider range of bullets available to you because you can use hollow base bullets at lower velocities and still achieve the desired ftlbs of energy and accuracy you are looking for.
If you want to shoot to 125 yards accurately and maintain ftlbs of energy above, for example, the 1250 ftlbs recommended for elk, you are going to want to move to a heavy bullet, spin it fast and send it fast. Doing so typically will limit you to flat based bullets to preclude the deformed bases caused by unequal gas escape and blown bullet skirts. If you want to shoot deer, then all you will need is 1000 ftlbs of energy and you can have lower muzzle velocities and lighter bullets and more than likely use some of the hollow base bullets.
So I would recommend the following:
If you are talking about what bullet works best for you, you need to set some parameters. Bullet weight, max distance you intend to shoot, desired ftlbs of energy at your max distance (desired game), the muzzle velocity you are shooting at and your sight-in distance.
If you don't, then all you are getting are apples to oranges comparisons.
1. Distance matters. If you are shooting for accuracy at 50 yards, you can shoot at lower velocities which, with most any hollow base conicals, provides the best accuracy. If you want a conical to have hitting power and accuracy at 100 yards, you simply cannot push the hollow base bullets fast enough to do both.
2. Bullet weight matters. Generally, heavier weight for caliber bullets do better in short barrel carbines.
3. Twist rate AND muzzle velocity matters. You need to spin the bullet at a high enough RPM and send it fast enough so that it stabilizes itself and does not hit transonic/subsonic velocities before your maximum intended range.
What does this mean to you?
Well, if your desired max distance is 75 yards or less and your sight-in is 50 yards, you have a wider range of bullets available to you because you can use hollow base bullets at lower velocities and still achieve the desired ftlbs of energy and accuracy you are looking for.
If you want to shoot to 125 yards accurately and maintain ftlbs of energy above, for example, the 1250 ftlbs recommended for elk, you are going to want to move to a heavy bullet, spin it fast and send it fast. Doing so typically will limit you to flat based bullets to preclude the deformed bases caused by unequal gas escape and blown bullet skirts. If you want to shoot deer, then all you will need is 1000 ftlbs of energy and you can have lower muzzle velocities and lighter bullets and more than likely use some of the hollow base bullets.
So I would recommend the following:
If you are talking about what bullet works best for you, you need to set some parameters. Bullet weight, max distance you intend to shoot, desired ftlbs of energy at your max distance (desired game), the muzzle velocity you are shooting at and your sight-in distance.
If you don't, then all you are getting are apples to oranges comparisons.
I know there is huge controversy about energy required for game. I use energy for the following reason...penetration.
A bullet, if it holds together reasonably well, with enough retained energy will penetrate solid bone and continue on to give through and through penetration so that you will have an adequate blood trail for tracking.
Others can discuss shock value, killing potential and other gaseous issues pertaining to retained energy, of which I believe is speculation at best, anecdotal mostly, and not repeatable by any standard. I use it for the simple physics to give me a yard stick of momentum (mass x velocity) to get an idea of the bullet's potential to penetrate.
A bullet, if it holds together reasonably well, with enough retained energy will penetrate solid bone and continue on to give through and through penetration so that you will have an adequate blood trail for tracking.
Others can discuss shock value, killing potential and other gaseous issues pertaining to retained energy, of which I believe is speculation at best, anecdotal mostly, and not repeatable by any standard. I use it for the simple physics to give me a yard stick of momentum (mass x velocity) to get an idea of the bullet's potential to penetrate.
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Yes, I've learned that to start something new, start at the beginning.
My mind drifted (again!), and I was thinking about how to document my findings.
I know my way around an Excel spreadsheet, so there's my start.
I know what guns I have, so I have my first constant.
Bullets - second constant, to start.
Now I have to pick a distance, and go from there.
Thanks for all of the info and ideas!
