my siler lock from chambers............

[bob1961]

i noticed some mushrooming on my lock plate where the hammer hits the plate to stop the hammer from falling to far....

is this normal or does the plate have to be hardened....i only dropped the hammer 2 times to see how smooth it works....even had a wooden flint in the jaws...................bob

 

[jh45gun]

The Kit I bought from him needed to be hardened. So if it is a kit I would think it needs to be hardened. If it is a complete lock I would think it should be ready to go. Since it is that soft I am guessing it is a kit that needs to be hardened.My kit gave instructions on what needed to be hardened before using. I had problems with mine and sent it to him which he fixed but he does not warranty kits so he was a bit grumpy with me. If it is not a kit I would call him and ask him, but do not be supprised if he is a bit edgy he sure was with me but he did take care of my lock for me and in a timely fashion and maybe I just caught him on a bad day who knows. Jim

 

[rich pierce]

It is rare indeed to find a hardened lockplate on most high dollar locks, but they are common as chicken feathers on imports and commercial "affordable" guns. It's simply a matter of labor and expense, a numbers deal. Asking for it on a Chambers or L&R or Davis lock is "asking for it", allright. Don't go there with the manufacturer, is my advice.

Many nice locks with unhardened plates last a long time and give excellent service. Still, I am one of those guys who believes it is worthwhile to work on ANY commercial lock regardless of who made it or how well-designed it is. Case-hardening lockplates was common to nearly universal on original flintlocks. That may be due to the use of wrought iron which was extremely soft and would wear fast otherwise. I DO realize that it would cost over $250 to sell a lock the way I like them. I'm happy to pay $125 or whatever and work on them myself. I don't ask for favors from the maker because once the lock has been worked on, they are no longer responsible for the way the lock functions.

Some plates are made of chromoly 4140 and will harden, whereas others will need case hardening. I believe many gun parts should be case hardened but are not commonly done that way. I like to case harden breechplugs after they are all fitted and etc. Then if I need to unbreech, it's very unlikely that the lug will get all chewed up, even if I am in an emergency situation and don't have a specialized tool. Plus if hard and polished, a breech face will resist corrosion. Same with trigger plates, simple triggers, etc.

One more thing- if you use really hard wood on them wooden flints do they spark better? I never had any luck with them but thought maybe osage orange would work........

 

[Zonie]

As rich says, most of the locks made in America do not have hardened lock plates.
While I can understand your concern, it may be "much ado about nothing" as ole Billy S once said. (That boy always did talk strange!).

Because so many Siler and L$R locks have soft plates, and many of them have worked well for years, I don't know if it's worth the effort to try to harden them.

If you do try to case harden the area with Kasnit, there is a good chanch of warping the plate when you quench it from it's red heat. That might be worse than having a little impact damage because the lock plate might not fit the mortice, and it's internal parts might bind up.

The instructions that come with the castings etc in the unassembled locks from Siler don't say anything about hardening this area, so I don't think you will get much satisfaction from the builder.

 

[jh45gun]

I should have clarified my post saying the only parts I hardened were the parts that needed to be as the instructions specified. Jim

 

[bob1961]

thanks guys fer yer answers....it's his large deluxe siler fully assembeled and polished lock....was just wondering if anyone else had this lock and the same thing was happening to it.....................bob

 

[2thdoc]

I used the same lock on the last rifle I built. It did the same thing you are describing. Just deformed a little where the hammer hits the plate; hasn't gotten any worse after about 300 shots.

 

[davidesau]

Bob,
I've been admiring Jim's work for 30yrs. I wrote him once about the possibility of using the frizen spring & screw from his early Ketland lock, which is external, on his early Germanic lock. It's screw is internal, and smaller. I wanted to use this lock for a French Tulle fusil. The external spring screw was about the only thing it needed, along with a little plate reshaping, to make a great lock for this project. He wrote me back, and said ya, I can do it but it'll cost you. I haden't really asked him if he could do it, only if it could done, without upsetting the timing. He seemed a little put out with me for asking.
He knew more about lock building, and tuning, when he was 20, than I do now. BUT he is a little cranky. Probably from years of dummies like me asking him stupid questions.
Dave

 

Bob, there are two "stops" on most locks (Siler being one of them). The shoulder on the hammer and the tail on the back of the tumbler. Ideally, the shoulder on the hammer will contact the lock plate at exactly the same time as the tail on the tumbler contacts the bridle (just behind the top bridle screw). These two pionts together stop the tumbler rotation. Production locks often have the hammer shoulder contacting the plate just before the tail of the tumbler contacts the bridle. Provided the remaining gap between the tail and bridle is no more that a few thou, the shoulder on the hammer will upset (as yours is doing) until the gap closes and the two "stops" work in unison. Check for clearance between the tumbler tail an bridle with the hammer at rest. If it is now touching, your good to go. if there is a gap you could CAREFULLY stone the shoulder of the hammer until the gap is gone. Better to have a thou or two gap at the tail and let the soft hammer compress for perfect fit (like it's doing now) than creating a gap at the hammer causing the hardened tumbler to strike first. IMO Hope this helps

Cody

 

thanks guys fer yer answers....it's his large deluxe siler fully assembeled and polished lock....was just wondering if anyone else had this lock and the same thing was happening to it.....................bob

Is it "mushrooming" or are you just peening a bright spot on the plate? That must be one he!! of a mainspring!

I have 8 guns with this lock, shoot them often, and they will show a bright spot where the hammer touches the plate. I would hardly call it "mushrooming"! Some came assembled and I built some from kits. I forget which are which, so I doubt that any are hardened. One of them is built from the "siler guts" and uses a plate formed from mild steel. Even that plate shows no deformity. They don't need to be hardened.

Having seen some of your other work I take it for granted that this is a "shiney" gun and does not sport an aged patina or pickled barrel and lock.

Is it a real deformation or just the desire to have ones cake and eat it too. Shooting a rifle will give it a ritual mark or two. Honest wear that inturrupts the pristine appearance of the New.

Is the "mushrooming interfering with the function of the lock? That's a BIG flat anvil of steel you are smacking made up from both the plate and the pan bolster! It's almost 3/8" thick. Have you "mushroomed it to the point where you can not get the plate into the inletting? Is the hammer rubbing the "mushroomed" plate area?

I would follow the old adage of "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

After 5,000 rounds or so you might have to remove the lock and touch it up with a file so the hammer won't drag on the "mushroomed" plate. Until then I would call that "bright spot" normal wear and proof that the rifle is actually being shot.

The other alternative is one of those wire ties like they use at the gun shows. That will preserve your pristine appearance.

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