My unknown rifle journey

[NavyDoc76-80]

Did you get a nose cap and wedge escutcheons with it? If so are they iron or silver? If silver my money is on a Western Arms or Allen F.A. kit from 1985-ish.
Here is a pretty well documented run down on the history of the Uberti/Ithaca/Santa Fe/Jedediah Smith/Western Arms/Allen F.A. Hawkens.
http://grrw.org/uberti-santa-fe-hawken/

Nose cap. If you mean the trim piece at the end of stock towards the muzzle, then yes. Seems to be solid brass. The wedge escutcheons are brassish. Could be silverish too. I put one the buffing wheel. It actually shined somewhere between silver and brass. Took that to mean thin plating. The ends of the wedges are definitely silverish. Figured it was stamped steel. I will review your link with interest.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Ok, stop the press. Apparently I’m full of dookie. Went out to to take a second look. The nose is not solid brass. It’s more shiny silver than brass, depends on the light source what color you think it is. Did some research. I believe now it’s anodized aluminum with a hint of yellow thrown in. Same for the escutcheon plates. Put a magnet to them as well. Nada. Now, the heads of the wedges is definitely steel. I’ll bore you all with some more pictures when I get back to the shop.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Ha! Forgot I brought these in to get a second opinion of color. My wife could see the yellow, yet silverish as well…

 

[kelvinator]

Yep, I believe it is referred to as German silver... not sure exactly what that means in terms of alloy composition, but not iron.
It takes on a slightly yellow tone with age but when freshly sanded or ground on appears more silver but never looks like brass, to me anyway.
I refinished mine last year, re-shaped the nose cap and escutcheons and left them somewhat satin, not polished. They looked almost silver then but have since turned slightly yellowish just like they were before the re-finish.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Outstanding. Looked up German Silver. A couple different combinations but here’s one 60% copper, 20% nickel, 20% zinc. Thus the golden hue. Copper. Ain’t Aluminum for sure.

 

[kelvinator]

Ain’t Aluminum for sure.

Nope.
Here's a few more pics for comparison.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Very similar. Your fit and finish is exceptional. What did you choose to use to finish the wood?

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

What did you do to the butt plate to darken it like that.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Nope.
Here's a few more pics for comparison.

See questions above.

 

[kelvinator]

Mine was really dark finished on the wood when I got it, and I believe it had some kind or stain or finish applied to it on top of the original finish so it was kind of a mess.
So I stripped it and re-contoured a few areas, then just applied Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil, hand rubbed till the pores were mostly filled and light once over with 0000 steel wool... no stain.
I think these are European walnut, which I had no experience with.
My only experience with walnut has been with vintage american walnut on old Benjamin/Sheridan air rifles and they are very dark even without any stain... so I just went with the Tru-Oil right over the bare wood on this one.
It's definitely lighter than any Uberti or Pedersoli Hawken you'll see, I call her Blondie

 

[kelvinator]

What did you do to the butt plate to darken it like that.

Laurel Mountain Forge browning solution.
It works great on most cast iron parts.
But there are some steel alloys that it does not react well to at all, some have had issues with it on various barrel alloys.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

So I stripped it and re-contoured a few areas, then just …….

Those Then Just statements can fill volumes.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Yes, I just removed the barrel from the stock on mine and it has the exact same proof marks as yours, but date code of AM for 1984 so one year before yours, and exact same rear sight, serial number 6921.
Did you get a nose cap and wedge escutcheons with it? If so are they iron or silver? If silver my money is on a Western Arms or Allen F.A. kit from 1985-ish.
Here is a pretty well documented run down on the history of the Uberti/Ithaca/Santa Fe/Jedediah Smith/Western Arms/Allen F.A. Hawkens.
http://grrw.org/uberti-santa-fe-hawken/

Had a thought. Given our rifles are like brothers, do you recall the threads of the nipple. Mine was missing and best I could figure, it is M6-1, curious if the same. Though it fit and did snug tight, I just have that nagging feeling that I may be wrong. Paranoia can be a bummer sometimes.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@NavyDoc76-80, your rifle has the proof marks and dating and powder marks of an Italian manufactured rifle. The nipple will be metric. A 6 mm - 0.75 mm threaded nipple won't fit. Your 6-1.00 is correct. Pedersoli now does use 1/4-28 UNC threads, but they won't fit in a 6-1.00 nipple seat.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

@NavyDoc76-80, your rifle has the proof marks and dating and powder marks of an Italian manufactured rifle. The nipple will be metric. A 6 mm - 0.75 mm threaded nipple won't fit. Your 6-1.00 is correct. Pedersoli now does use 1/4-28 UNC threads, but they won't fit in a 6-1.00 nipple seat.

Outstanding, thank you for confirming Grenadier1758

 

[kelvinator]

@NavyDoc76-80, your rifle has the proof marks and dating and powder marks of an Italian manufactured rifle. The nipple will be metric. A 6 mm - 0.75 mm threaded nipple won't fit. Your 6-1.00 is correct. Pedersoli now does use 1/4-28 UNC threads, but they won't fit in a 6-1.00 nipple seat.

This is interesting. I thought I knew what the threads were on mine.
I've been using the nipple that was in it when I bought it, because, well, it just works.
I also have an assortment of nipples from various TC Renegades I've owned over the years which are all 1/4-28.
I have test threaded every one of these TC nipples in my Santa Fe and they all go in and fit just like the one it came with.
If a 1/4-28 is not supposed to thread into a 6-1.0 then perhaps at sometime mine was re-tapped to 1/4-28 for some reason?

 

[Songwriter]

I have an Allen/Uberti Santa Fe and it also appears to be 1/4-28. Also, @kelvinator , I used to live in Corinth, way before all the growth.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Oh Boy, you fellas sure know how to build confidence. Well, I will have to double check everything and be sure. I’m hoping Grenadier is correct. And songwriter is newer and yours , kelvinator, was re-tapped.

 

[kelvinator]

@Songwriter small world, 2 people from the same area with the same rifle. Yes the growth is ridiculous. I been here in HC for 21 years, 16 years before that in Corinth myself.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Oh Boy, you fellas sure know how to build confidence. Well, I will have to double check everything and be sure. I’m hoping Grenadier is correct. And songwriter is newer and yours , kelvinator, was re-tapped.

As the old saying goes, "It's never that easy." A 6mm-0.75mm is almost the same thread pitch as the 1/4-28 UNC. The 0.75 thread pitch is 29 threads per inch. It will start but not seat and will be loose in the threads. The 1.00mm thread pitch is 25 threads per inch. If one does seat a 6-0.75 in a 1/4-28, it will eventually get blown out. It's far better to verify than rely on my posting on the Forum.

The Allen/Uberti Hawken was built to US specs originally and likely had US standard threads. Pedersoli continued with the 1/4-28 nipples after it acquired the Uberti Hawken.

However, it's best to check. If your local hardware store is leery of someone bringing in a gun barrel, you can buy single bolts of the three standard nipple threads. Get a 6-0.75, 6-1.00 and 1/4-28 machine screw and see which one is the correct fit.