Navy Arms/Pietta 1860 Army?

[Skychief]

I need some help guys. My friend has a revolver that he wants to sell to me. It is marked Navy Arms Ridgefield NJ on top of the barrel. It is also marked Pietta-Italy, 1860 Colt Army. I believe it is a .44. He bought it new in the early 70's and it has never been fired.

I would like to hear any thoughts about this revolver that you will offer. Is it a good quality piece, is it usually accurate, anyt inherent problems with this make/model, etc, etc? I handled it today and believe it to be unshot. He has long ago lost the original box. Lastly, what do you think it is worth?

All replies greatly appreciated as while I am a blackpowder nut, my experience with bp revolvers is limited to the ROA I have owned for years. Thanks very much!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Pietta made the revolver for Navy Arms. These guns work best with 20-25 grains of real black, a pre-lubed wonder-wad and a .454 round ball.

Be careful to not press down on the loading lever with a great amount of pressure, especially when using only 20 grains of powder, due to the fact that I broke-off a tooth on the loading lever. I'd recommend that you use 25 grains of powder to help solve this inherent problem.

The gun is probably well made (Piettas from that time-line usually were) and should give you years of service. I bought a used Uberti 1860 Army a few years ago for $200.00.

Hope that this helps and good luck :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[Mike Brooks]

If the action is smooth and it is in good time it should be good.

 

[mykeal]

If your only bp percussion revolver experience is with an ROA you will find an 1851 Navy to be quite different.

The 1970's vintage Pietta was a fairly good one; they didn't start having soft parts problems until quite a bit later. The gun is well balanced and points naturally; some find the grip frame a bit large compared to the original but if you like the ROA's grip you'll like the Pietta 1851. It's smaller, noticeably smaller, but comfortable nonetheless.

Yes, 20 to 25 gr fffg, with either a lubed felt wad or grease, works well. No significant recoil and very good accuracy.

If it is truly unfired the only issues I can imaging might be the nipples being frozen in place or the barrel wedge being too tight/frozen. While unusual to rare they did sometimes occur on new Piettas of that time frame. If possible remove all the nipples and the wedge to ensure they won't be a problem. Lastly, and this one is probably one you can't check out until you own it, the trigger/bolt spring screw had a bit of a reputation for being installed by a gorilla; just be careful to use a good hollow ground gunsmith's screwdriver when you try to remove it the first time.

 

[Poor Private]

Late last summer I came upon a NIB(new in box) 1860 army for $199.00 marked Replica Arms Co. out of Ohio. It was made by Uberti in 1968. It came with all the paperwork and box and even the original sale slip dated 7-20-68. for a whopping cost of $76.70 (this included the sales tax. Originall sold in Whittier Calif. Guess where it it is now? Sitting on my night stand shelf. I consider it a great buy, one of my treasured revolvers. I have used it both in civil war reenacting and live firing on my own range. Nice to handle well balanced, and best of all FUN TO USE!!

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. aug 6 / 01:55am


bluebook value for 100% mint with box is $245.
98% value without box $180.

~d~

 

[bprevolver]

Take good care of your Replica Arms 1860 Army. Too bad you are shooting it. This revolver NIB with papers, etc. would bring over $500 to a serious collector. Since I am a collector and no longer a shooter I concentrate on historical information about the modern production black powder percussion revolvers. Replica Arms was one of the first in the business. Most of these guns were make by Uberti and Armi San Marco.

 

[bprevolver]

Take good care of your Replica Arms 1860 Army. Too bad you are shooting it. This revolver NIB with papers, etc. could bring over $500 to a serious collector. Since I am a collector and no longer a shooter I concentrate on historical information about the modern production black powder percussion revolvers and their collectiblility. Replica Arms was one of the first in the business. Most of these guns were make by Uberti and Armi San Marco.

By the way, Blue Book is worthless for finding true value of replica revolvers. They do not even list 1/4 of the revolvers manufactured and/or distributed. I love to buy these guns at their listed values. Have you ever wondered how they come up with their values?

Thus far in doing research for a book the following have been uncovered. There are:

240 Colt Models and variations
14 Remington Models and variations
5 Other Union Models
14 Confederate Models and variations
39 Non-Historic Colt Models and variations
16 Non-Historic Remington Models and variations
13 Non-Historic Confederate Models and variations

Manufacturers and Distributors Who Marked their Guns

4 All American made replicas
5 American Assembled replicas (Included Colt)
21 Foreign Manufacturers
53 Distributors who marked their guns.
24 Possible markings but not yet observed

In addition there are probably over 100 commemorative and special edition revolvers that have been produced.

RPRCA, Ltd has over 800 revolvers in its collection with very few duplicates. As you can see these revolvers constitute a very wide group of collectible revolvers. Value is based on supply and demand. The 2nd & 3rd Generation Colts have pretty much stabilized in price because these were aimed at the collector as well as the shooter. Therefore, there are many NIB Colts available. Not so with other replicas such a Replica Arms which were directed primarily toward the shooter so there are very few of these that can be found NIB.

 

[colmoultrie]

You make a good point about value, but on the other hand, especially for a modern-made gun, if you just keep it in the box you have a beautiful, expensive paperweight. I can see keeping a piece of history, but in my mind, those who shoot the guns get their money's worth.

To each his own, however. Even in my antiques, I like a decent amount of use. A gun that sat in a box for it's entire history doesn't match one with honest use, as long as it's been cared for.
:v

 

[bprevolver]

All I can say is the the "attitude" of the shooter is very different than that of the collector. I have been both most of my life but at age 75 I get more pleasure in research and collecting than in shooting. A collector has the same "attitude" as a treasure hunter and receives the same "rush" when a new discovery is made that a deep sea treasure hunter gets in discovering a ship wreak or the "Mountain Man" received looking over the next mountain. Both have their place and it isn't wise to look down on or judge what others derive there pleasure form.

Check out these two sites to see how bad the collector "addiction" can be.
http://rprca.tripod.com
http://drjldavis.tripod.com

 

[Poor Private]

I fire the 1860 army in both reenactments, and live firing. To me it is worth more as as fired weapon than as a collectable. as previously stated "It would only be a paperweight" since I only paid 200 bucks for it and the 500 you stated is not that much of a increase I figure that I would get and have gotten $300 worth of enjoyment out of it. My swife has fired it, my son has fired it and even my 76 yo father has. So to me having all my family fire it , to me it has more historical significance.
If I am ever desperate in need of cash I know I can resell it for the 200 if I keep it in good condition, which I do with all my firearms.
Heck I have a "63" Remington "zouve" hanging on my wall thats been around since the 60's not worth a fortune, except to me, my 70 yo uncle gave it to me so I named it after him "BOB". It is mounted on a piece Aspen with a sword bayonet for it. the board is all trimmed in brass, and has an engraved nameplate also the mounting cost
me about $75, a bit high except to me and mine.
Why should I keep all my weapons in pristine, factory condition just so my heirs or someone else can enjoy them.

 

[mykeal]

I acknowledge the lack of completeness and the questionable values in the Blue Book, but it is essentially the only game in town. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do detailed research into the values and availability of the various bp replicas extant, so I start with the Blue Book and expand from there as my interest determines. Each and every time I quote the Blue Book I add the following caveat: "The Blue Book is only a guide. Actual prices can and do vary considerably in either direction." What else can one do?

I've been waiting for a better reference for many years. I would be most appreciative (that is, I'd buy one) if the volume promised by the RPRCA web site were available.

 

[colmoultrie]

Both have their place and it isn't wise to look down on or judge what others derive there pleasure form.

I certainly don't look down on collectors - I'm one! I'm not particularly interested in collecting replicas, because the history of the originals is what lures me, but if that's your field, then more power to you.

However, if everyone who originally bought a Replica Arms piece kept it unfired in the box, they would be common in 100% condition, and their values would stagnate. So people like Poor Private who shoot theirs are doing collectors like you a favor, making the unfired ones rarer and more desirable! :wink:

Ultimately, even with originals I'd rather see a used, but well-cared for example that spent time on someone's hip and helped to make a bit of history. I like Jim Supica's statement on collecting antiques, which goes something like this:

Commit Heresy - The first three rules of collecting are "condition,condition, and condition." Ignore them. Learn to love 50% guns, NRA Fair, and bobbed barrels. Won't work for you compulsives, I know, but works fine for me.

Not your cup of tea? Fine! If I ever run across a 100% Replica Arms piece in the box, or something similar at a "shooter" price, I'll drop you a line, and we can work a trade.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I bought a nice cased 1861 navy by replica arms last year. Unfired condition and has all the accessories. I plan to put some treso nipples in it and use it as a mate to my '61 pietta in cowboy matches, unless of course it's incredibly rare and worth a couple thousand dollars.... :grin:
This gun was part of a large lot of guns I bought. I sold most of them and kept this '61 and a Patterson. In fact with the sales of all the other guns I'm $150 ahead at this point and the navy and the Pat are FREE! :grin:

 

[Poor Private]

I just came back from window shopping at the same store I bought the NIB 1860 Army with all the paperwork... Guess what they have a 2nd model Dragoon NIB by Repilca Arms with all the paperwork including the original bill of sale. Yep you guessed it, it was owned by the same guy who owned the NIB army that I now own. Now a decision comes into being they want $329.99 for it, worth the price? or is a passer?

 

[Mike Brooks]

That's about what a second model from Uberti goes for new these days. If I had to have one I'd buy it...money is useless unless you spend it. :wink:

 

[madcratebuilder]

All I can say is the the "attitude" of the shooter is very different than that of the collector. I have been both most of my life but at age 75 I get more pleasure in research and collecting than in shooting. A collector has the same "attitude" as a treasure hunter and receives the same "rush" when a new discovery is made that a deep sea treasure hunter gets in discovering a ship wreak or the "Mountain Man" received looking over the next mountain. Both have their place and it isn't wise to look down on or judge what others derive there pleasure form.

Check out these two sites to see how bad the collector "addiction" can be.
http://rprca.tripod.com
http://drjldavis.tripod.com

I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking. I'm seriously considering selling off my center fire collection and build up my original C&B collection, replicas too.