Need a date range...

[Little Wattsy]

What was the date range of the Western Mountian Man Hawken Rifle? From when to when OR when was it "King"?
I want to get a real half dollar from that year to affix to the sock of a fullstock hawken that Im building..... What year? :hmm:

 

[LaBonte]

The Hawken shop was under the management of the two brothers, Jake and Sam, from 1825-1849, when Jake passed on - guns built during this era are marked J & S Hawken. From 1849 until the shop was sold to J. P. Gemmer in 1862 the shop was under the control of Sam until 1854 and then under his son William - the majority of guns during this era were marked S. Hawken with some being W. S. Hawken by William. After 1862, J. P. Gemmer marked many if not all mountain rifles with the S. Hawken stamp.
The Mountain rifle was just one gun product, they also built local "squirrel" rifles as well as California rifles. The Mountain rifle did not spring forth as we commonly know it (late S. Hawken half-stocks such as the Carson rifle), but was developed over time. Yet the basics of heavy barrel, iron mountings, plain maple stock, etc. were established by around 1830 or so.
The half-stock Mountain rifle, that is so identified as being a Hawken, can be dated pre-1840, but became most popular after that date with the highest year of production of all guns being in the 1849-1852 Calif Gold Rush era.
While full-stock Mountain rifles were less popular after 1840 some continued to be made into the mid-1850's.

So pick your date.....

BTW - what parts/kit are you using for your build? The style of certain parts such as the triggerguard and buttplate will inpart determine the time period in which they were made.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Its this Pecatonica kit ( http://www.longrifles-pr.com/hawkenfull.shtml ) With the CM5 stock..

 

[LaBonte]

That's very late 1830's to early 1840's style (circa 1838/9-1846 build date) - so a coin from that era or later period....of course one could have an earlier coin put on a later gun so....

 

[Little Wattsy]

True but as I toy with the idea, corretc year-ish sounds appealing to me.... However in 1856 we add "in God we trust" Vs "E pluribus unum" so I am torn between say an 1840 or an 1856.... :surrender:

 

[Trot]

E Pluribus Unum was removed in 1836 and in God we trust wasn't added until 1866. I would look for one with a damaged reverse to keep the cost down, assuming you would have the date side showing. This would save you money, and not ruin a more collectable coin.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Good idea....

To one and all any thoughts on how to affix said coin solidly without damage?

Im thinking a 50% inlet and 3 screws where just the head secures the coin..??

 

[cynthialee]

This post came up just as I have been thinking the last few days on how do you set a coin into a stock.

 

[Little Wattsy]

This post came up just as I have been thinking the last few days on how do you set a coin into a stock.

Well dont be shy.. Tell me. :wink:

 

[cynthialee]

Well I was thinking that a way I could make the inlet for it was to take a coin of same denomination and heat it red hot and lay it on the spot I want to put the coin. It will burn a perfect circle of the size needed. Then remove the coin and carefuly chisle out the chared stuff and wood from there. Maybe need to do the red hot coin thing 2 times I would guess.
As for secureing the nice coin, I haven't figured that out yet, so this is a timely post for me.

It is all just churning in my head at the moment. I have no solid plans yet.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Won't work as it will char the surrounding wood too.

Also, have you considered how you would hold the coin to do this? You would need something akin to a branding iron in order to lay it flat on the wood....and then there aren't too many flat areas on a typical rifle.

Traditional inletting meathods are the best for a reason. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[LRB]

You will do better using chisles.

 

[Little Wattsy]

OK.. Draw trace a circle around the coin. Carve/chisil out the inlet. predrill three or four holes just kissing the coins edge and screw flat headed screws in thus holding the coin without maring the coin...??? :hmm:
Maybe a little adhesive behind the coin? :idunno:

 

[LaBonte]

two ways to add the coin that IMO are best:

1) Inlet with chisels and then silver solder a wood screw on the back - glue in place

2) Inlet with wood chisels then glue in place along with 3 or 4 small "silver pins" to hold in place - make the pins the same way one does fr other inlays - small tapered sections of silver, drill and lightly chamfer the holes, drive the pins in and peen flat.

 

[Little Wattsy]

two ways to add the coin that IMO are best:

1) Inlet with chisels and then silver solder a wood screw on the back - glue in place

2) Inlet with wood chisels then glue in place along with 3 or 4 small "silver pins" to hold in place - make the pins the same way one does fr other inlays - small tapered sections of silver, drill and lightly chamfer the holes, drive the pins in and peen flat.

Are you talking about drilling the coin?

 

[Trot]

Another thing to think about is that the reeded edge of the half dollar would make a neat inlet difficult.

 

[LaBonte]

two ways to add the coin that IMO are best:

1) Inlet with chisels and then silver solder a wood screw on the back - glue in place

2) Inlet with wood chisels then glue in place along with 3 or 4 small "silver pins" to hold in place - make the pins the same way one does fr other inlays - small tapered sections of silver, drill and lightly chamfer the holes, drive the pins in and peen flat.

Are you talking about drilling the coin?

on number two - yes...

 

[S.Kenton]

OK.. Draw trace a circle around the coin. Carve/chisil out the inlet. predrill three or four holes just kissing the coins edge and screw flat headed screws in thus holding the coin without maring the coin...??? :hmm:
Maybe a little adhesive behind the coin? :idunno:

Exactly what I was thinking of suggesting.

 

[Zonie]

To inlay a coin, or any other metal inlay it is best to use the actual item as a guide.

The edges of the item need to be filed so there is a slight taper going inward from the outer surface to the bottom. In the case of a coin that should remove any serrations that exist.
The angle should not be steep. A 1-4 degree angle will do nicely.

If possible, the inlay (coin) should be bent so it will lay flat on the wood in the area you want to install it.

When your ready, place one small drop of Superglue on the back side and press it against the wood until it sticks.

Using a pointed Exacto or similar hobby knife, held at a slight angle to match the filed edge of the inlay place the tip against the outside of the coin. Press the tip into the wood. Then, move slightly around the coin and repeat.
You want to end up with a complete cut around the outside of the coin with no voids in it.

Remember, you want the exact edge of the inlay/coin to be guiding the tip of the hobby knife so keep it up snug against the coin.

If the wood is hard you may have to go around the coin at least twice until the tip of the knife goes in to a depth that is at least the thickness of the inlay/coin.

Once the outside cut is made, a light tap with a hammer/mallet will break the superglue bond and the coin will pop off.

Now, using the same hobby knife place the tip about 1/16" inside the incised outside cut.
Holding it at about a 45 degree angle so the tip will cut down into the wood and meet the incised cut at its bottom push it down into the wood.
A small chip should pop out.
Continue this until you have removed 1/16" of wood completely around the incised cut.

This cut will help you avoid damaging the precision incised cut you worked so hard to make when you use a chisel to remove the center area wood.

Your chisel must be razor sharp. Dull chisels will cause all sorts of problems.

Carefully remove the wood in the center area to a depth that matches the coin. You may have to try fitting the coin to determine this.

To secure the coin you can use a epoxy like JB Weld but soldering a short pin or needle to the back side will make a more permanent installation.

I never draw around an inlay with a pencil unless it is just to keep track of where I will want to install it.

Relying on a pencil line and sight to create a precision cut with a knife is asking for trouble.

Follow this link to read more about installing inlays.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/73337/post/74951/fromsearch/1/#74951

 

[Little Wattsy]

Thank You Zonie...

And for any that wish to try it I found this for some cool less expensive coins to install...
http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/copper/1-avdp-ounce.html
http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/private-slv/1-ozt-rd.html