Need advice breaking clays

[Jason5881]

Ok, so I have a lot going on. I recently have come to possess a 16ga. Belgian double back action caplock. I do have a LOTR id questions about the gun. I'll pist pictures in a new thread later with tons of questions about it. But right now, I'm on vacation in a place where I can shoot a bunch, and I'm having trouble breaking clays. Not the hitting, but the actual breaking. Im using an ounce of 7.5s with 80 grains of Goex Fg powder. The Starr recommended max load. I thought I missed my first 15 clays in a row, but once I went to pick up them up, I realized multiple of them had little chips, or dings, that were obvious shot impacts, but that weren't breaking the clays. I was wadding over powder and over shot with either 3 muslin patches, or a bunch of crushed leaves. I just ran out and bought #6 shot to try tomorrow, but I really feel like I should be breaking them. I'm hitting them at about 20 yards out from the thrower which im standing next to. Kind of hard to get on them any quicker. I found chips/ impact marks on about 20 of them, and only broke one in the air. Any ideas? The gun really doesn't seem to impact very hard, nothing like my 1187 with light target loads. Any ideas from your collective genius? I did really have a blast. Thanks for your help, and I'm looking forward to posting more!

 

[Bob McBride]

Id try 2F, and you need a lubed nitro wad at a minimum under the shot to really get some velocity to spray out those clays. Though leaves and stuff will work, you loose a lot of velocity as your gasses blow through your shot in the bore.

 

[nhmoose]

Temp means a lot on clay it is November. Frozen birds need more than 1 hit to break. Many I pick up at my range may have 2-3 holes in them but still not broken.

Centered birds will break seems you are hitting with the edge of the pattern. See where the gun shoots .

 

[Eterry]

Bob is right, leaves and twigs are for starting a camp fire and patches are for round balls. You need some card wads, period.

I personally would use more shot, maybe try a square load of 70 grs.

At least you're hitting them... i'm usually not that lucky.

 

[Jason5881]

Thanks guys, your all right on. It's pretty cold here, which isn't helping. It really seems like the gun is under powered, so I must not be building the pressure. I ordered some card wads, just waiting for them to come in, but they're not going to arrive for this getaway. Other than card wads, is their any other field expedient wad to get the gun to build pressure? Thanks!

 

[No Deer]

I use about 90 grains 2f in my 12 ga. double, breaks birds just fine....as long as I do my part. You should be just about right at 80 grains for a 16 ga. I think that the suggestion to use wads instead of leaves is probably right on.

 

[smo]

That’s the fg making it feel under powered.
As mentioned above, more shot and give ffg a try.
It packs a little more punch.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Crumpled up brown paper or even newspaper will work in a pinch, but careful you don't set the scenery alight.
Roll a ball of paper and ram it down well.
Leaves are no good if dry. They want to be green, tough leathery types like ivy or something of that sort.
I am sure your problem is lack of pressure. Card wads can be punched out using a piece of pipe, sharpened at one end. So long a sit's about bore diameter.
Tons of game shot with paper or Spanish moss wadding though.

 

[Britsmoothy]

3f.
Next.

 

[Carbon 6]

I was wadding over powder and over shot with either 3 muslin patches, or a bunch of crushed leaves.

That's your biggest problem. you need a good solid gas seal in order to develop velocity. Otherwise you just get blow-by.

Start with a good gas seal, A heavy lubed wad or better yet, leather.
Larger shot will also break birds better.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you have access to am 11/16 arch punch and some thin cardboard, you can punch out some over shot cards from thin cardboard. These cards will be a bit large 11/16 = 0.6875 and 16 gauge is 0.663. Still you can force them in the bore. You will need about 4 of these thin cards to do the job of an over powder wad and one to use as an over shot card. Hope you can get a good gas seal.

 

[jlatz]

An ounce of shot and 2 1/2 drams of ff (around 70 grams)with good wads will do it. When using cushion wads split them in half, use only half the wad. When getting good wads pattern the gun. I have used a 15 ga. for several years putting down 2 1/2 drams of powder, an over powder wad, half a cushion wad, an ounce of shot and a thin over shot wad. For clays I recommend #7 shot. It has nearly 20 percent more inertia than 7 1/2 shot. In the original guns I have used 777 most of the time. it is easier to clean and performs well. Using the load I recommended with the 15 ga. I broke 25 out of 30 birds from the 10 yard line at Friendship in the small bore match. That load works well for that gun. Get good wads and pattern the gun. That may help.

 

[Eterry]

The slick pages from ads will not ignite like brown paper, but don't be stingy with it. Use enough to fill the bore and cause a good seal. But i prefer cardboard wads.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Felt wads as well, E.T. Dipped in tallow are good.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you make the round cards that are too big for the bore, slit them to the center so they can be turned over the slit to better fit the bore. You can cut the circles with a scissors to approximate the diameter of the bore.

 

[AJFedak]

Hi Jason, I have been breaking clays (skeet) with a Beretta 12ga O/U (cylinder chokes) using 1 oz. of 3F, split a 3/8" thick over-powder card (or 3 over-shot cards), 1oz. #9's and 1 over-shot card for quite some time. Station #8 does create a 'target cloud of smoke' but the target is closer and the pattern is about the size of a 9" plate.

Does it 'smash' clays like my Browning, no, but then my load speed is much slower. You have to remember that the energy required to break the clays is due to mass (shot pellet weigh) and shot velocity. Your 1187 is probably flying a 1200+ f.p.s. and your black powder load is probably around 900 f.p.s. Also consider that you are hitting the target on the side/edge side which is much thicker and therefore harder to break.

If the clay targets get soft the pellets go right through without breaking them. We had purchased 'new' clays for our high school trap team and found many clays had been hit multiple times and did not break. We return them to the store for refunds and bought different a different brand. They were using them in competition and we could not afford all the 'Lost targets' due to poor quality clay target.

 

[Eterry]

Hi Jason, I have been breaking clays (skeet) with a Beretta 12ga O/U (cylinder chokes) using 1 oz. of 3F, split a 3/8" thick over-powder card (or 3 over-shot cards), 1oz. #9's and 1 over-shot card for quite some time. Station #8 does create a 'target cloud of smoke' but the target is closer and the pattern is about the size of a 9" plate.

Does it 'smash' clays like my Browning, no, but then my load speed is much slower. You have to remember that the energy required to break the clays is due to mass (shot pellet weigh) and shot velocity. Your 1187 is probably flying a 1200+ f.p.s. and your black powder load is probably around 900 f.p.s. Also consider that you are hitting the target on the side/edge side which is much thicker and therefore harder to break.

If the clay targets get soft the pellets go right through without breaking them. We had purchased 'new' clays for our high school trap team and found many clays had been hit multiple times and did not break. We return them to the store for refunds and bought different a different brand. They were using them in competition and we could not afford all the 'Lost targets' due to poor quality clay target.

Not to split hairs, but I'm sure you meant 70grs of fffg and NOT an ounce, which is 437.5 grains. Followed by an ounce of lead, which is 70grains by volume.

I'd hate to see someone use that much powder in anything shoulder fired.

 

[AJFedak]

Not to split hairs, but I'm sure you meant 70grs of fffg and NOT an ounce, which is 437.5 grains. Followed by an ounce of lead, which is 70grains by volume.

I'd hate to see someone use that much powder in anything shoulder fired.

Nice catch, that's what my mind had but fingers didn't copy that. Yes 70grs fffg

 

[Eterry]

Was shooting at the Spring shotgun soiree in Electra Tx and a guy had a 4 bore. He kept saying he used a square load of 4 ounces...I couldn't imagine using over 1600 grains of ANYTHING! I finally realized he meant four scoops of a 70 grain dipper.
He murdered the birds at the Handicap line.

But the star of the show was a guy who broke 24 birds 3 times in a row using an original French made 20 bore flintlock double.
He used a square load of 40 grs.

 

[DUNKS]

I am new to muzzle loading. Just got my first gun a 16g 1835 English double percussion shot gun. I break clays cleanly out to 35 yards with 70grains of ffg and an ounce of 7 shot. 3mm hard waxed nitro card and half a cushion over shot soaked in oil. Lots of very close clays at my clayground, love to see the clay just disappear.